Proving AB is Idempotent: A=A^2, AB=BA

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the product of two idempotent matrices, A and B, is also idempotent under the condition that AB = BA. Participants explore various approaches to the proof, including manipulations of matrix products and the implications of commutativity.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants start with the premise that if A and B are idempotent (A = A^2) and AB = BA, then AB should also be idempotent.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about whether A and B have inverses and questions if inverses are relevant to the proof.
  • Another participant proposes that (AB)^2 = ABAB = AABB = A^2B^2 = AB, suggesting this is a step towards proving idempotency.
  • There is a question about the validity of switching the order of multiplication in the expression ABAB to AABB, with some participants asserting that it is permissible due to the commutativity of A and B.
  • One participant doubts the ability to switch the matrices, indicating a belief that there may be a different method to reach the conclusion.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the commutativity of A and B allows for switching, while also noting that idempotent matrices are only invertible in trivial cases.
  • Several participants confirm that the initial condition AB = BA can be used throughout the proof, reinforcing its importance in the argument.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of switching matrix order in multiplication and the relevance of inverses. There is no consensus on a definitive approach to proving that AB is idempotent, as some participants remain uncertain about the steps involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need for clarity regarding the assumptions about inverses and the implications of matrix multiplication properties, but these aspects remain unresolved.

eyehategod
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If A and B are idempotent(A=A^2) and AB=BA, prove that AB is idempotent.

this is what i got so far.
AB=BA
AB=B^(2)A^(2)
AB=(BA)^(2)

this is where I get stuck.
Do A and B have inverses? if so, why?
should I be thinking about inverses or is there another way of approaching this problem?
 
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eyehategod said:
If A and B are idempotent(A=A^2) and AB=BA, prove that AB is idempotent.

this is what i got so far.
AB=BA
AB=B^(2)A^(2)
AB=(BA)^(2)

this is where I get stuck.
Do A and B have inverses? if so, why?
should I be thinking about inverses or is there another way of approaching this problem?

(AB)^2 = ABAB = AABB = A^2B^2 = AB
 
can you just switch the B and A from ABAB to get AABB?
 
ABAB = A(BA)B = A(AB)B = AABB. Is that OK ?
 
Last edited:
i doubt you can switch those matrices b/c youre multiplying the two of them. This has got be wrong. there has to be a different way to get what I am trying to get.
 
eyehategod said:
i doubt you can switch those matrices b/c youre multiplying the two of them. This has got be wrong. there has to be a different way to get what I am trying to get.

It is given in the question that AB = BA... so it's ok to switch them.
 
eyehategod said:
i doubt you can switch those matrices b/c youre multiplying the two of them. This has got be wrong. there has to be a different way to get what I am trying to get.

YOU said in the first post AB=BA, IF that is true then you can switch the order like that.
 
As has been pointed out THEY COMMUTE! But that isn't why I post. I want to point out that only in the trivial case can an idempotent be invertible.
 
Last edited:
so if i start the proof off with AB=BA then I can use AB=BA later on in the proof I started off with in the firszt place?
 
Last edited:
  • #10
eyehategod said:
so if i start the proof off with AB=BA then I can use AB=BA later on in the proof I started off with in the firszt place?

Yes. you're given AB = BA is true... so you can use that anywhere in your proof...
 

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