Proving Existence of b in F for Field with Char p and Reducible f

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of an element ##b## in a field ##F## with characteristic ##p##, related to a polynomial ##f## that is reducible over ##F##. Participants explore the implications of ##f## being reducible and whether this guarantees that a certain element has a p-th root in ##F##.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants consider the relationship between the reducibility of the polynomial ##f## and the existence of a p-th root of an element ##a## in ##F##. They discuss the implications of ##a## being a p-th power and the conditions under which ##f## splits in ##F##.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants questioning the assumptions regarding the reducibility of ##f## and its implications for the existence of roots in the field. Some participants suggest exploring specific coefficients and their relationships to the field ##F##, while others express uncertainty about definitions and properties related to irreducibility.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the definitions of reducibility and splitting in the context of fields, particularly in relation to characteristic ##p##. There are references to examples of polynomials that are reducible but do not split in certain fields, highlighting the nuances of the discussion.

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Homework Statement
Let ##F## be a field with characteristic ##p## and let ##f(x) = x^p - a \in F[x]##. Show ##f## is irreducible over ##F## or ##f## splits in ##F##.
Relevant Equations
##F## has characteristic ##p## means that ##p## is the smallest positive integer such that for all ##x \in F## we have ##px = 0##.

##f(x)## splits in ##F## means ##f(x) = c_0(x-c_1)(x-c_2)\cdot\dots\cdot(x-c_n)## where ##c_i \in F##.

##f(x)## is irreducible over ##F## means if ##f(x) = g(x)h(x)## in ##F##, then ##g(x)## or ##h(x)## is a unit.
Suppose ##f## is reducible over ##F##. Then there exists ##g, h \in F## such that ##g, h## are not units and ##f = gh##. If there exists ##b \in F## such that ##b^p = a##, then ##(x - b)^p = x^p - b^p = x^p - a##, using the fact that ##F## has characteristic ##p##. So, if such a ##b \in F## exists, then ##f## splits in ##F##. But I don't think we can guarantee ##b## does exist. And I realize I didn't really use the assumption that ##f## is reducible. How to proceed?

Does ##f## being reducible over ##F## somehow imply ##a## has a pth root in ##F##?
 
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If ##a## is a ##p##-th power, say ##a=c^p##, then ##f(x)=x^p-c^p=(x-c)^p## splits.

If ##a## is not a ##p##-th power, you can still factor ##f=(x-c)^p## in a splitting field for ##f##. Do you see why this implies that ##f## must be irreducible over ##F##?
 
Infrared said:
If ##a## is a ##p##-th power, say ##a=c^p##, then ##f(x)=x^p-c^p=(x-c)^p## splits.

If ##a## is not a ##p##-th power, you can still factor ##f=(x-c)^p## in a splitting field for ##f##. Do you see why this implies that ##f## must be irreducible over ##F##?
Thanks for the response. I'm sorry I don't. The only thing I can think to do is try to show ##F[x]/(f)## is a field which would show ##f## is irreducible over ##F##. I can think of polynomials that are reducible over a field, but don't split, such as ##x^2 - 4## is reducible over ##\mathbb{Z}## but does not split in ##\mathbb{Z}##. So it has to do with ##f## having only one zero?

Am I just completely not understanding a definition here?
 
Last edited:
If ##f=(x-c)^p##, what are the possibilities for how it can factor as ##f=gh##?

fishturtle1 said:
##x^2 - 4## is reducible over ##\mathbb{Z}## but does not split in ##\mathbb{Z}##
Besides ##\mathbb{Z}## not being a field, ##x^2-4=(x-2)(x+2)## splits. Something like ##(x^2+1)^2## is reducible but doesn't split (over ##\mathbb{Q}##).
 
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Infrared said:
If ##f=(x-c)^p##, what are the possibilities for how it can factor as ##f=gh##?Besides ##\mathbb{Z}## not being a field, ##x^2-4=(x-2)(x+2)## splits. Something like ##(x^2+1)^2## is reducible but doesn't split.
##f## can factor as ##f = (x-c)^m(x-c)^n## for integers ##m,n## where ##m + n = p## and I think we need to show that ##m = 0## or ##n = 0##. Assume by contradiction that ##f## is reducible over ##F##. Then ##f = (x-c)^m(x-c)^n## for some ##m, n \ge 2## (since ##c## is, by assumption, not an element of ##F##).
Also thanks for the correction, I remind myself now that ##\mathbb{Z}## is not a field because not everything has an inverse...my bad.
 
Last edited:
Right, so you need to show that ##(x-c)^n## is not in ##F[x]## when ##0<n<p##, meaning that not all of its coefficients lie in ##F##. Can you find a coefficient that doesn't lie in ##F##?
 
Infrared said:
Right, so you need to show that ##(x-c)^n## is not in ##F[x]## when ##0<n<p##, meaning that not all of its coefficients lie in ##F##. Can you find a coefficient that doesn't lie in ##F##?
It think it is ##c^n \not\in F[x]## and I show it by contradiction.

Proof: Assume ##f## does not split in ##F## and ##f## is reducible over ##F##. Then ##f = (x-c)^m(x-c)^n## for some integers ##m,n \ge 2## such that ##m + n = p##. This implies ##c^m, c^n \in F##. By previous chapter, ##p## is ##0## or prime. If ##p = 0##, then contradiction. Otherwise ##p## is prime. This implies ##\gcd(m, n) = 1##. Then there exists integers ##u, v## such that ##mu + nv = 1## i.e. ##(c^m)^u(c^n)^v = c^{mu + nv} = c^1 = c \in F##. But if ##c \in F##, then we have ##x - c \in F[x]## which would imply ##f## splits in ##F##. We have reached contradiction and can conclude ##(x-c)^m, (x-c)^n \not\in F[x]## i.e., ##f## is irreducible over ##F##. []
 
Right, this is fine. Even a little bit simpler is just to look at the coefficient ##-nc## for the ##x^{n-1}## term.
 
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Infrared said:
Right, this is fine. Even a little bit simpler is just to look at the coefficient ##-nc## for the ##x^{n-1}## term.
I'm a fool for this, but how do we show ##-nc \in F## implies ##c \in F##, if I understand what you're saying? Does ##n## always have an inverse in a field?
 
  • #10
Every nonzero element of a field has an inverse. Since ##0<n<p##, it is not a multiple of ##p##, so nonzero.
 
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Infrared said:
Every nonzero element of a field has an inverse. Since ##0<n<p##, it is not a multiple of ##p##, so nonzero.
I understand now, thank you for your help on this thread.
 

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