Pursuing a Career in NASA? (or related careers)

[Just1nmc]

Hi everyone. I'm making this post as a graduating senior in high-school, who's unsure of the careers that are out there for physics and astronomy, and how to pursue them. Any feedback is amazing :)

Just a quick background about myself: I've always loved science, pretty much any kind other than anatomy and related subjects. I'm graduating with a 4.0, and have taken 3 years of Chemistry, 2 years of Physics, Calculus, and an Astronomy course. I'll be attending the University of Pittsburgh, but hope to transfer to somewhere with a stronger physics department. I've had the University of Maryland College Park in mind, due to its location near D.C., and opportunities for NASA internships. (college suggestions are also welcome)


My ideal career would be working for NASA, or a related employer. I would like to work on any kind of space missions. I'd like to help design, calculate, and/or create simulations for these types of projects, as opposed to the engineering work. However, I am open to all suggestions.
I would also be willing to work on general projects in astronomy, involving the collection of data and analysis of it.

I also know that computers are becoming essential for this type of work, and wonder if a degree in computer programming would help me pursue careers like these.



I know the types of things I am interested in; however, I do not know what specific careers are available. As an undergrad I'd like to do everything I can to prepare myself, including summer research/internships, taking hard courses, and earning any necessary degrees.

I really need suggestions as to how I would best go about getting into careers like the two I mentioned. Thank you to anyone that has taken the time to read this, I appreciate it :)

 

[Norman]

Here is my limited anecdotal experience:

The engineering side of NASA is a little more straightforward. You come up through the internship program, toe the line, work for the right advisor, know the right people, then eventually get hired on as a civil servant (a person who works for the federal government directly, not as a contractor). The majority of the engineers I know went this exact route.

For the science side, it is a little less straightforward. Especially if your science is not tied to aeronautics or manned space flight in some way. I came up the science route so it is the one I know. I started working as an undergrad (physics) with a professor at my university (all the way up in Wisconsin) who had a few grants through NASA. As an undergrad I won a few scholarships through my state's http://www.nasa.gov/offices/education/programs/national/spacegrant/home/index.html" . They are a NASA funded program, which gives out scholarships and fellowships for research related to NASA.

This research experience led me to go to grad school, doing similar projects. My graduate research was funded by NASA through the https://fellowships.nasaprs.com/gsrp/nav/". This funded the final 3 years of my grad school and let me pursue my research without having to have a teaching assistantship take time away from my research.

Now I am on a NASA postdoc, through the http://nasa.orau.org/postdoc/" . The old NASA way is to come up through all their programs just like I did. Even having done this, it is still unlikely that I will get a permanent position at NASA. That is just the reality of my research group. We don't have a lot of funding.

That being all said, I wouldn't simply only set my sights on NASA if I were you. The reality of NASA is far from the (likely) romanticized version which you have. There is a lot of politics, competition, and favoritism between research groups and between research centers. There can be a lot of ugliness that goes along with the research around here. Just like anywhere I suppose.

So, my suggestion for you is to keep your mind open during your studies. Develop skills that will be useful no matter if you get a bachelor's degree in EE or a PhD in physics- learn to write well, learn to speak in public well, learn to be self-motivated, learn to work well in a team, and whatever degree you earn, get as much practical experience in the field as you can. This will never hurt your job chances.

You seem to be a little vague in what you want to do. I would argue that your desire to do modeling and simulation is could be met by many different degrees, including some engineering degrees. I know many engineers who really don't do any design work. They only do mod & sim.

Just some thoughts for you. I am only one data point and no two experiences are exactly the same. Take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[Geronimo72]

Hi everyone. I'm making this post as a graduating senior in high-school, who's unsure of the careers that are out there for physics and astronomy, and how to pursue them. Any feedback is amazing :)

Just a quick background about myself: I've always loved science, pretty much any kind other than anatomy and related subjects. I'm graduating with a 4.0, and have taken 3 years of Chemistry, 2 years of Physics, Calculus, and an Astronomy course. I'll be attending the University of Pittsburgh, but hope to transfer to somewhere with a stronger physics department. I've had the University of Maryland College Park in mind, due to its location near D.C., and opportunities for NASA internships. (college suggestions are also welcome)


My ideal career would be working for NASA, or a related employer. I would like to work on any kind of space missions. I'd like to help design, calculate, and/or create simulations for these types of projects, as opposed to the engineering work. However, I am open to all suggestions.
I would also be willing to work on general projects in astronomy, involving the collection of data and analysis of it.

I also know that computers are becoming essential for this type of work, and wonder if a degree in computer programming would help me pursue careers like these.



I know the types of things I am interested in; however, I do not know what specific careers are available. As an undergrad I'd like to do everything I can to prepare myself, including summer research/internships, taking hard courses, and earning any necessary degrees.

I really need suggestions as to how I would best go about getting into careers like the two I mentioned. Thank you to anyone that has taken the time to read this, I appreciate it :)

Unfortunately, it is not 1965. NASA appears pretty much a dying enterprise, and there MAY be one more shuttle mission, then that dinosaur goes into the history books and museums.
NASA's future is HIGHLY uncertain, and anything but rosy, so forget this dream of working with NASA. That said, you seem to have all the ingredients for a career in science, but I'd do some serious research on job trend projections (including getting any advice you can from any contacts you can make from the real world). DO NOT swallow all the pie-in-the-sky garbage you may get from schools trying to attract warm bodies, i.e. students, to their physics programs. From what you've written, my guess the best route for you might be aerospace or mechanical engineering at a proven engineering school or university. If you love number crunching, maybe mathematics/computer science, but I'd be careful there, and unless you're super brilliant and plan to get the PhD in physics, I'd forget that route. And keep in mind that we live in an upside-down world now, with potential employer-hiring based as much on politics as anything else now. But good luck young fella.

 

[Just1nmc]

Thank you both for your feedback, it means a lot. It appears that some sort of engineering program would suit my needs much better than a pure physics/astronomy program, especially regarding job opportunities. I'm definitely not set on NASA, I just would like to do that type of work.

So my next question would be - Do I need to choose between a career path in Astronomy and a path in something like Aerospace Engineering?

My favorite subject has been astronomy for quite some time. But if I was to pursue a career in studying the universe, I realize that my job opportunities would be limited. For that reason I'm also open to something like Aerospace Engineering, which I imagine would require different undergrad classes.

Do you think Astronomy is even worth pursuing, or should I focus my efforts on something more applicable like engineering? I'm open to most things; Electrical Engineering is the only thing I can't quite see myself doing.

 

[Geronimo72]

Thank you both for your feedback, it means a lot. It appears that some sort of engineering program would suit my needs much better than a pure physics/astronomy program, especially regarding job opportunities. I'm definitely not set on NASA, I just would like to do that type of work.

So my next question would be - Do I need to choose between a career path in Astronomy and a path in something like Aerospace Engineering?

My favorite subject has been astronomy for quite some time. But if I was to pursue a career in studying the universe, I realize that my job opportunities would be limited. For that reason I'm also open to something like Aerospace Engineering, which I imagine would require different undergrad classes.

Do you think Astronomy is even worth pursuing, or should I focus my efforts on something more applicable like engineering? I'm open to most things; Electrical Engineering is the only thing I can't quite see myself doing.

You sound a lot like me way way back. I became a physics major solely because of my love of astronomy and hopes of working in that field. My plans changed along the way and I stuck with physics because I figured my chances of employment would be better. I had a friend/classmate who went on to get his PhD in astrophysics. He ended up with a staff job at a gov't observatory (blah) and then moved on to other non-astronomy related jobs, then became an entrepreneur of sorts (unsuccessfully) and is now virtually unemployed and living off past investment savings. Needless to say, he went nowhere in astronomy. Top theorists can still make a good living, but how many of us can be that, and there are just so many positions. As I said, unless you are exceptionally brilliant and feel you can significantly contribute to cosmology or astronomy, I'd not go that route academically. You can still study astronomy as a hobby, and leave the real skull work to the leaders in the field. I'd go with engineering. "Space travel" seems to definitely be moving to the private sector, and that seems to be the future at the present time. There will be many companies working on getting vehicles out of the Earth's atmosphere and into orbit.

 

[Just1nmc]

You sound a lot like me way way back. I became a physics major solely because of my love of astronomy and hopes of working in that field. My plans changed along the way and I stuck with physics because I figured my chances of employment would be better. I had a friend/classmate who went on to get his PhD in astrophysics. He ended up with a staff job at a gov't observatory (blah) and then moved on to other non-astronomy related jobs, then became an entrepreneur of sorts (unsuccessfully) and is now virtually unemployed and living off past investment savings. Needless to say, he went nowhere in astronomy. Top theorists can still make a good living, but how many of us can be that, and there are just so many positions. As I said, unless you are exceptionally brilliant and feel you can significantly contribute to cosmology or astronomy, I'd not go that route academically. You can still study astronomy as a hobby, and leave the real skull work to the leaders in the field. I'd go with engineering. "Space travel" seems to definitely be moving to the private sector, and that seems to be the future at the present time. There will be many companies working on getting vehicles out of the Earth's atmosphere and into orbit.

I'm tending to agree with you on this. It would be nice to be able to go into Astronomy, but most likely won't pay off from what I see. You're supposed to go into something that you love, but I don't think I'll love it very much if I can't get a job. Unfortunately I'm already enrolled at the A&S University of Pittsburgh, but hopefully transferring into an engineering program after my first year would not be too much of a set back; if I chose to do so.

 

[gb7nash]

Unfortunately, it is not 1965. NASA appears pretty much a dying enterprise, and there MAY be one more shuttle mission, then that dinosaur goes into the history books and museums.
NASA's future is HIGHLY uncertain, and anything but rosy, so forget this dream of working with NASA.

This.

I too wanted to work for NASA, but the funding is drying up in this area. Keep your options open to other choices.

 

[Norman]

I'm tending to agree with you on this. It would be nice to be able to go into Astronomy, but most likely won't pay off from what I see. You're supposed to go into something that you love, but I don't think I'll love it very much if I can't get a job. Unfortunately I'm already enrolled at the A&S University of Pittsburgh, but hopefully transferring into an engineering program after my first year would not be too much of a set back; if I chose to do so.

I don't think astronomy is terribly unemployable if you go on the observational side and learn a lot of optics and/or numerical methods and computational skills. To counter the above argument, I know a guy who did a phd in astronomy and now makes over 200k working for a company doing research and designing gun optics.

What it comes down to is you shouldn't just take the word of a few people on the internet. Get first hand experience and make up your own mind. No matter what you decide on for a major, learn employable skills.

 

[Just1nmc]

I don't think astronomy is terribly unemployable if you go on the observational side and learn a lot of optics and/or numerical methods and computational skills. To counter the above argument, I know a guy who did a phd in astronomy and now makes over 200k working for a company doing research and designing gun optics.

What it comes down to is you shouldn't just take the word of a few people on the internet. Get first hand experience and make up your own mind. No matter what you decide on for a major, learn employable skills.

I'm far from a decision, but every bit of input helps. I have a year of college to talk to experts in these fields and hopefully get accepted for undergrad research. My only concern is making a decision as to whether or not I should enter an engineering program my sophomore year. It seems to me that I could more easily go into engineering, while also taking some classes that an Astronomy major would take, rather than the other way around. Of course, I'm just a graduating high-school student, and don't know if that is true.

I definitely agree with you regarding the employable skills. English is by far my least favorite subject, but I'm going to taking plenty of it to improve my writing. I also plan on taking computer programming and similar classes in order to open my career opportunities up a bit.

 

[Shackleford]

You don't want to teach astronomy anywhere?

 

[Just1nmc]

You don't want to teach astronomy anywhere?

Teaching has never been an interest of mine. I mean I don't mind tutoring, but teaching a formal class is not something I'd like to go into.

 

[twofish-quant]

I had a friend/classmate who went on to get his PhD in astrophysics. He ended up with a staff job at a gov't observatory (blah) and then moved on to other non-astronomy related jobs, then became an entrepreneur of sorts (unsuccessfully) and is now virtually unemployed and living off past investment savings. Needless to say, he went nowhere in astronomy.

Then there is me. I got my Ph.D. in astrophysics, went to work in various computer jobs, ended up working on Wall Street, and I figure that in five to ten years, I'll have enough money saved up to retire early and do astrophysics for the rest of my life. Also there is a lot of similarity between the research I was doing in astrophysics and the research I'm doing now in computational finance, and I'm learning a lot of useful stuff that will be of benefit when I make the transition back into astrophysics.

I think the important thing that has worked for me is that I've been very inflexible in my goals (I want to do astrophysics) but extremely flexible as far as means.

 

[twofish-quant]

To counter the above argument, I know a guy who did a phd in astronomy and now makes over 200k working for a company doing research and designing gun optics.

Same here. I know at least of several astrophysics Ph.D.'s working in investment banks at the managing director level, and I think that they are making close to $1M/year. I don't know of anyone that has an astrophysics Ph.D. that is unemployed. Basically, if you can figure out quantum field theory and the big bang, you should be smart enough to figure out how to write a good resume and get a decent job, even if it's a little painful to make the transition.

 

[twofish-quant]

Teaching has never been an interest of mine. I mean I don't mind tutoring, but teaching a formal class is not something I'd like to go into.

It will be good for your career if you learn to teach a class. Every day, I go to work and I have to teach a class called "this is why you pay me money and why you shouldn't fire me." You can think of a job interview as you giving a class presentation called "Why you should hire me."

 

[hadsed]

It will be good for your career if you learn to teach a class. Every day, I go to work and I have to teach a class called "this is why you pay me money and why you shouldn't fire me." You can think of a job interview as you giving a class presentation called "Why you should hire me."

This is interesting. My own feelings towards this is that a lot of people might have trouble bragging about themselves to a bunch of people. I guess the whole point is to brag as much as possible, but I've always felt a bit uncomfortable with it and I suspect maybe others feel that way too.

 

[Ryker]

I don't think you need to or should brag, you just need to know your strenghts and be assertive enough to be comfortable expressing them. A job interview still involves the human factor, so it's not enough just getting something out, it's how you say it, as well.

 

[Geronimo72]

Then there is me. I got my Ph.D. in astrophysics, went to work in various computer jobs, ended up working on Wall Street, and I figure that in five to ten years, I'll have enough money saved up to retire early and do astrophysics for the rest of my life. Also there is a lot of similarity between the research I was doing in astrophysics and the research I'm doing now in computational finance, and I'm learning a lot of useful stuff that will be of benefit when I make the transition back into astrophysics.

I think the important thing that has worked for me is that I've been very inflexible in my goals (I want to do astrophysics) but extremely flexible as far as means.

Sorry, but your post makes me a little suspicious. Any guy with a PhD in astrophysics and who has even a little knowledge about the way things are should know that anyone who gets the doctorate, then leaves the field completely for Wall St. for years, would have less than a snowball's chance in hell of making a "transition back into astrophysics" after such an absence, unless of course your "transition back into astrophysics" is nothing more than as a hobbyist.

 

[twofish-quant]

Any guy with a PhD in astrophysics and who has even a little knowledge about the way things are should know that anyone who gets the doctorate, then leaves the field completely for Wall St. for years, would have less than a snowball's chance in hell of making a "transition back into astrophysics" after such an absence, unless of course your "transition back into astrophysics" is nothing more than as a hobbyist.

There are two things that you need in order to do theoretical astrophysics:

1) social connections in the field
2) free time

The internet makes 1) easy. 2) is a problem.

I'm keeping my social connections in the field fresh. Once I end up making a ton of money, then I'll have a lot of free time, so that I can travel to conferences, go to universities, write papers and generally do astrophysics stuff.

Now if I wanted a title that would be harder, but I don't need a title. Just give me a library card, access to a supercomputer, and talk about the latest interesting problems in astrophysics, and I will be able to do useful stuff.

 

[twofish-quant]

This is interesting. My own feelings towards this is that a lot of people might have trouble bragging about themselves to a bunch of people. I guess the whole point is to brag as much as possible, but I've always felt a bit uncomfortable with it and I suspect maybe others feel that way too.

It's tricky because there is a balance. You don't want to come across as too arrogant, but on the other had you don't want to be too quiet. That's why teaching experience is useful because you end up dealing with the same issues.

One thing that I've learned in teaching is "show don't tell" and "let the student work things out for themselves a bit."