QFT: Invariant Measures & Rotational Invariance Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of invariant measures in quantum field theory (QFT), particularly in the context of rotational invariance and its implications for proving unitarity and the proper transformation of operators. Participants explore the mathematical details of change of variables in integrals and the role of the Jacobian determinant in these transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the invariance of the measure in the context of rotational transformations, questioning the absence of a factor related to the rotation matrix R when performing a change of variable.
  • Another participant suggests using brute force to compute the Jacobian to prove the equality, indicating that this is a common approach in various texts.
  • A different participant clarifies that the Jacobian determinant for the transformation in question is 1, as the infinitesimal volume element in 3-momentum space is preserved by rotation transformations.
  • One participant introduces the concept of the rearrangement lemma from group theory, explaining its application in both finite and continuous groups, and how it relates to invariant measures.
  • A question is raised about whether the weight function described in the context of invariant measures corresponds to the Haar measure.
  • Another participant affirms that it resembles the Haar measure if normalized correctly over the entire manifold.
  • A participant acknowledges their misunderstanding regarding the determinant of the rotation matrix, indicating a realization about the invariance of the measure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical principles involved, such as the role of the Jacobian and the concept of invariant measures. However, there is some uncertainty regarding the specifics of the transformation and the implications of the rearrangement lemma, indicating that multiple perspectives and interpretations exist.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the need for careful parametrization and the implications of group theory in defining invariant measures, highlighting the complexity of these concepts in continuous groups.

whynothis
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I am reading through sidney colemans lectures on QFT and I am stuck on what seem to be a silly question: He talks about the fact that the measure used in a calculation should be invariant in order to prove unitarity and later on that operators transform properly. He uses the example of rotational invariance.

[tex]U^{-1}(R)\int d^{3}k|k><k| U(R)[/tex]
[tex]\int d^{3}k |R^{-1}k><R^{-1}k|[/tex]

Change of variable: Rk' = k
Now this is the part I don't get (I must be confused)
[tex]d^{3}k' = d^{3}k[/tex]
It seems to me like there should be a factor of R or something. However, the strange thing is that R is a matrix (isn't it?) so I don't really get it. Can someone explain what is going on here?
 
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When in doubt, use brute force. Grind it out. That is, here, compute the appropriate Jacobean, and thus prove the equality. (Done in countless texts.)
Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
 
whynothis said:
[Coleman] talks about the fact that the measure used in a calculation should be invariant [...]

[tex]U^{-1}(R)\int d^{3}k|k><k| U(R)[/tex]
[tex]\int d^{3}k |R^{-1}k><R^{-1}k|[/tex]

Change of variable: Rk' = k
Now this is the part I don't get (I must be confused)
[tex]d^{3}k' = d^{3}k[/tex]

In general, when you perform a change of variable in an integral, you
must include the Jacobian determinant of the transformation. In this case
the Jacobian is [itex]| \partial k'_i/\partial k_j |[/itex].
(Consult Wiki for more detail.)

In the current case, [itex]d^3k[/itex] is an infinitesimal volume element
in 3-momentum space, and are preserved by rotation transformations,
so the Jacobian turns out to be 1. But that's not necessarily so in more
general transformations.
 
whynothis said:
I am reading through sidney colemans lectures on QFT and I am stuck on what seem to be a silly question: He talks about the fact that the measure used in a calculation should be invariant in order to prove unitarity and later on that operators transform properly. He uses the example of rotational invariance.

[tex]U^{-1}(R)\int d^{3}k|k><k| U(R)[/tex]
[tex]\int d^{3}k |R^{-1}k><R^{-1}k|[/tex]

Change of variable: Rk' = k
Now this is the part I don't get (I must be confused)
[tex]d^{3}k' = d^{3}k[/tex]
It seems to me like there should be a factor of R or something. However, the strange thing is that R is a matrix (isn't it?) so I don't really get it. Can someone explain what is going on here?

From the point of view of group theory, what he used is the so-called rearrange lemma. It's most easily to be understood in finite dimensional.
For example, you have a cyclic group [tex]G = \{e,a,a^2\}[/tex] with [tex]a^3 = e[/tex]. Let [tex]g\in G[/tex], for example, say [tex]g = a[/tex], then [tex]g\{e,a,a^2\} = \{a,a^2,e\}[/tex], meaning, [tex]g[/tex] operates on the all group element would reproduce all group elements. Hence, if we consider a summation over the group elements, say [tex]\sum_{g\in G}f(g'g)[/tex] where [tex]f[/tex] is a function of the group element. By the rearrangement lemma, we may safely rewrite the summation as [tex]\sum_g f(g)[/tex]

In the continuous group case, the rearrangement lemma is somewhat more involved. Since we have infinitely many ways to parametrize a Lie group, so we have to be more careful. We define that, a parametrisation [tex]g(\xi)[/tex], together with a weight function [tex]\rho_g(\xi)[/tex] such that the following equation holds
[tex]\int dg f(g) = \int dg f(s^{-1}g)[/tex]
where [tex]s\in G[/tex] and [tex]dg = \rho_g(\xi)d\xi[/tex] is called to provide an invariant measure. And one can prove that the weight function for SO(3) group is just 1. (It happens to be the Jacobian factor).
 
ismaili said:
We define that, a parametrisation [tex]g(\xi)[/tex], together with a weight function [tex]\rho_g(\xi)[/tex] such that the following equation holds
[tex]\int dg f(g) = \int dg f(s^{-1}g)[/tex]
where [tex]s\in G[/tex] and [tex]dg = \rho_g(\xi)d\xi[/tex] is called to provide an invariant measure.
Is this the Haar measure?
 
looks like it, if you nomalize it to 1 when you integrate 1 over the whole manifold (group).
 
Thanks everyone for the help. I was forgetting about the fact that the determinant of the rotation matrix was 1... oops. Thanks for the further insight ismaili that is very interesting and I will have to look further into your comment.
 

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