QM: What are Tensor Operators & How to Understand Georgi's Definition?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Kontilera
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Operators Qm Tensor
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of tensor operators as defined in Georgi's book on Lie algebras in particle physics. Participants seek to clarify the definition and implications of tensor operators, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics (QM) and their transformation properties under the SU(2) group.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about Georgi's definition of tensor operators and requests a more detailed explanation with recognizable examples from QM.
  • Another participant provides examples of vector operators, such as the position operator, and tensor operators, like the electric quadrupole moment, illustrating their transformation properties under rotations.
  • A participant questions the interpretation of indices in the transformation equation, seeking clarity on the meaning of the index 's' and its relation to the representation.
  • Another participant clarifies that the index 's' labels the representation for SU(2), with the dimension of the representation being 2s+1, and relates this to the transformation of the position operator under the adjoint representation.
  • A suggestion is made to refer to a different source, Sakurai, for a more intuitive introduction to tensor operators and their transformation properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and examples of tensor operators but express differing levels of understanding and interpretation of the transformation equations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most intuitive way to understand these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge potential misunderstandings and invite corrections, indicating that there may be limitations in their interpretations of Georgi's definitions and the mathematical formalism involved.

Kontilera
Messages
176
Reaction score
24
Hello! I´m trying to read Georgi's book on Lie algebras in particle physics but am confused about the start of chapter 4.

Georgi writes that "A tensor operator is a set of operators that transforms under commutation with the generators of some Lie algebra like an irreducible representation of the algebra. [...] A tensor operator transforming under the spin-s representation of SU(2) consists of a set of operators, O^s_l, for l=1 to l = 2s+1(or -s to s), such that:[tex][J_a, O^s_l] = O^s_m[J^s_a]_{ml}"[/tex]

I thought I understood 90-95% sofar in the book but I really don't see what he tries to define here.. Could somebody maybe help me and introduce the concept in Georgis way but with some more words and an example i will recognize from QM? I don't recognize what he is trying to construct from my QM courses.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
In QM an example of a vector operator is the position operator x, a set of three operators x, y, z. Together they form a vector because under rotations they transform into each other. This fact can be expressed by writing out their commutators with the operators Ji that generate infinitesimal rotations:

[Ji, xj] = i εijk xk

Another example of a tensor operator is the electric quadrupole moment, which is a set of five operators Qm, m = -2, ... +2. Given a charge distribution ρ(x,y,z), you define its electric quadrupole moment by

Qm = ∫ρ r2 Y2m dV

where Y2m is a spherical harmonic. Under rotations the five operators Qm go into each other, and one can express this by writing out all the commutators of Ji with Qm.
 
Last edited:
Of course! Didnt think of the three dimensional position operator as a set of operators. :)
The equation of transformation however doesn't seem to intuitive.. how should I think about the indices in the equation I qouted above?

For x_j, j is obviously the dimension of our space so for O^s_l, l specifies a operator in our set? What about s, is it just referring to which representation? :/
 
I've been studying this book too so someone can (and should) correct any misunderstandings/misstatements below.

The index s labels the representation. For SU(2) as Georgi defines his indices, s=0,1/2,1,... labels the representation. Since the dimension of these representations is 2s+1, then the lower indices on the operators run from 1 to 2s+1.

In the example of the position operator, it clearly transforms under the s=1 representation, or the adjoint representation. Notice that i ε_ijk is exactly how he defines the adjoint representation, in terms of the structure constants of SU(2) in chapter 2.

For a more intuitive (imo) introduction to tensor operators, check out chapter 3.10 in Sakurai. It shows how transforming under the commutator as Georgi defines it is equivalent to V -> (J^-1)VJ.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
7K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K