Understanding tensor operators

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of tensor operators in the context of group representations in physics. Participants explore definitions, examples, and the implications of tensor operators, as well as their mathematical properties and applications in physical theories.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines a tensor operator as an operator that transforms under an irreducible representation of a group, providing a mathematical expression for this transformation.
  • Another participant suggests that most physical concepts can be considered tensors, citing background independence as a motivation for the definition of tensor operators.
  • Examples of tensor operators in physics are proposed, including electric and magnetic multipole moments of a nucleus and the tensor force between nucleons, which depends on the angles between their spin vectors.
  • A question is raised about the nature of the representations ##\rho(g)## and whether ##\rho_c(g)## corresponds to a specific state representation, along with a query about the derivation of a commutation relation involving tensor operators and generators of a Lie algebra.
  • One participant shares their derivation of a result related to the transformation of tensor operators under infinitesimal rotations and seeks clarification on the validity of a specific commutation relation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of tensor operators and their mathematical properties, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion includes both definitions and examples, but no consensus is reached on the implications or derivations presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical expressions and transformations, but the discussion does not resolve the assumptions or dependencies underlying these expressions. The implications of the definitions and examples remain open to interpretation.

CAF123
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The definition of tensor operator that I have is the following: 'A tensor operator is an operator that transforms under an irreducible representation of a group ##G##. Let ##\rho(g)## be a representation on the vector space under consideration then ##T_{m_c}^{c}## is a tensor operator in the irreducible representation ##c## if it transforms as follows: $$\rho(g) T_{m_c}^c \rho(g)^{\dagger} = (\rho_c(g))_{m_c m'_c} T_{m_c'}^c,$$ with summation over ##m_c'## implied.

Can someone give me an example of a tensor operator realized in physics and the motivation for such a definition?

Also, in that definition, what does it mean to say '...an operator that transforms under an irreducible representation of a group.'

Thanks.
 
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Can someone give me an example of a tensor operator realized in physics and the motivation for such a definition?
Pretty much everything in physics is a tensor. Motivation is background independence.

Also, in that definition, what does it mean to say '...an operator that transforms under an irreducible representation of a group.'
A representation is a set of matrices, right? Tensor is a vector for that matrix. Tensor is a vector that the representation matrix operates on.

If you have some tensor and a transformation belonging to the group and its associated representation matrix, then the tensor under that transformation will be multiplied by that matrix.
 
CAF123 said:
Can someone give me an example of a tensor operator realized in physics and the motivation for such a definition?
The electric and magnetic multipole moments of a nucleus.

Also, the tensor force between two nucleons, a noncentral potential S12 that depends on the angles between the spin vectors of the two nucleons and the position vector connecting them.
 
Are ##\rho(g)## some arbritary representations? And is ##\rho_c(g)## the representation of the state ##j=c##, a matrix of dimension ##(2c+1) \times (2c+1)##?

The definition ##\rho(g) T_m^j \rho(g)^{\dagger} = (\rho_j (g))_{mm'} T_{m'}^j## may be rewritten in an infinitesimal form as $$[J_a, T_b^1] = i\epsilon_{abc} T_c^1\,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,(1)$$ How is this derived? It looks similar to the generic Lie algebra but the elements of the commutator are not both generators, as far as I understand - one is a tensor operator, the other is a generator.

Edit: I derived an earlier result, that is $$e^{i\alpha_a J_a} T_k^1 e^{i\alpha_bJ_b} = T_k^1 + \epsilon_{alk} \alpha_a T_l^1$$ using (1). $$\rho(g) T_{m_c}^c \rho(g)^{\dagger} \equiv e^{i\alpha_a J_a} T_{m_c}^c e^{-i\alpha_b J_b} = e^{i\alpha_a J_a} T_{m_1}^1 e^{-i\alpha_b J_b},$$ where ##J_a## are the generators of some Lie algebra and ##T_{m_c}^c## is the tensor operator. The last equality follows from considering ##j=1## representation.

Linearise for infinitesimal rotations gives $$(1+ i\alpha_aJ_a) T_{m_1}^1 (1 - i \alpha_b J_b)$$ and then multiplying out $$T_{m_1}^1 + i(\alpha_aJ_aT_{m_1}^1 - \alpha_b T_{m_1}^1J_b)$$

I can get the result from here, but I explicitly used (1). Could someone explain why (1) is true?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

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