Quadrupole radiation formula for gravity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation and conversion of the quadrupole radiation power formula in gravitational contexts, specifically transitioning from geometrized units to conventional units. Participants explore the implications of dimensional analysis and the correct application of constants in the formula.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derived formula for quadrupole radiation power and discusses the use of geometrized units, noting the definitions of the quadrupole tensor and the context of established references.
  • Another participant suggests that the conversion to conventional units requires careful insertion of factors of ##G## and ##c## to ensure dimensional consistency.
  • A participant emphasizes that only one factor of ##G/c^5## should be used in the final formula, arguing that this aligns with the dimensional analysis presented.
  • Another participant reiterates the point about converting the left-hand side of the equation to conventional units, suggesting that this conversion leads to the cancellation of factors on the right-hand side.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the correct application of factors in the conversion process, with some asserting that only one factor of ##G/c^5## should be present in the final formula, while others challenge this interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities involved in dimensional analysis and the conversion between unit systems, with participants pointing out potential assumptions and the need for clarity in the application of physical constants.

Kostik
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TL;DR
Some help needed converting the formula for quadrupole radiation from geometrized units (##c=G=1##) to conventional units.
I derived the formula for the quadrupole radiation power emitted by a system of masses:
$$P=\frac{1}{45}\dddot{Q}_{kl}\dddot{Q}_{kl} .\quad\quad (*)$$ Note here that: (1) I am using geometrized units, so ##c=G=1##; (2) ##Q_{kl}## is the quadrupole tensor $$Q_{kl} = \int{(3x_k x_l - δ_{kl}\cdot r^2 )ρ} \, dV \quad (r^2\equiv x_k x_k)$$ and (3) repeated indices are summed over. (In Euclidean space ##R^3##, all indices are subscripts.)

This is essentially the same formula given by Landau & Lifshitz "Classical Theory of Fields, 4th Ed." (Eq. (110.16), p. 355) and Ohanian & Ruffini "Gravitation and Spacetime" (Eq. (5.75), p. 195): $$P=\frac{G}{45c^5}\dddot{Q}_{kl}\dddot{Q}_{kl} .$$ Landau & Lifshitz keep all factors of ##c## and ##G##, while Ohanian uses ##c=1## but keeps ##G## separate.

What I want to do is simply convert from geometrized units to conventional units, which means ##t## should be replaced by ##ct## and mass ##m## (or mass density ##\rho##) should be replaced by ##Gm/c^2## (or ##G\rho/c^2##).

Where I'm having trouble is that the power formula has a product ##\dddot{Q}_{kl}\dddot{Q}_{kl}##. So it seems to me that the correct way to convert ##(*)## to conventional units would be
$$P=\frac{1}{45} \left( \frac{G}{c^5} \right)^2 \dddot{Q}_{kl}\dddot{Q}_{kl} .$$ Obviously, this is wrong -- only one factor of ##G/c^5## should be used, which is also consistent with dimensional analysis. (In geometrized units, both sides of ##(*)## are dimensionless.)

I'm just not seeing why I should only add one factor of ##G/c^5##, when surely each factor of ##\dddot{Q}_{kl}## carries its own factor of ##G/c^5##? What am I missing here?
 
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You just have to insert the factors of ##G## and ##c## so the dimensions match correctly. You know that ##[G/c^5] = M^{-1} L^{-2} T^3##. You also know that ##[\dddot{Q}] = [P] = ML^2 T^{-3}##, so ##[P]/[\dddot{Q}]^2 = M^{-1} L^{-2} T^3 = [G/c^5]##
 
Kostik said:
only one factor of ##G/c^5## should be used
But you have to also convert the LHS of the equation to conventional units, so one factor of ##G/c^5## goes on the LHS, and cancels one of the two factors of ##G/c^5## on the RHS, so the end result is one factor of ##G/c^5## on the RHS, as the references you give say.
 
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PeterDonis said:
But you have to also convert the LHS of the equation to conventional units, so one factor of ##G/c^5## goes on the LHS, and cancels one of the two factors of ##G/c^5## on the RHS, so the end result is one factor of ##G/c^5## on the RHS, as the references you give say.
Thank you!
 

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