Quantum Field Theory. Electric discharge

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between triboelectricity and quantum field theory (QFT), exploring whether quantum effects are necessary to explain the transfer of electrons during electrical discharges, such as when touching another person or an object. The conversation touches on both classical and quantum perspectives of electron movement and the underlying mechanisms of the triboelectric effect.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of quantum effects to explain the triboelectric effect, suggesting that classical explanations may suffice.
  • One participant describes the triboelectric effect as involving contact and adhesion between materials, leading to electron transfer to equalize electrochemical potential.
  • There is mention of additional factors such as tunneling, electrical breakdown, and the influence of surface geometry on charge separation.
  • Several participants express a desire to understand how electron transfer occurs in QFT, comparing it to classical theories.
  • One participant asserts that the processes mentioned are not within the realm of quantum physics, emphasizing the complexity of QFT.
  • There is a suggestion that the question may require a more extensive explanation than can be provided in an online forum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether quantum effects are necessary to explain the triboelectric effect. Some argue for classical explanations, while others suggest that quantum field theory may play a role, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding and educational background, which may influence their interpretations of the relationship between classical and quantum theories. The complexity of QFT is acknowledged, with some participants indicating that a thorough explanation would require extensive study.

arnoldcena3000
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How work triboelectricity in QFT? Materialists exchange electrons as well as in classical theory?
 
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I don't understand why you need quantum effects to explain the tribo electric effect. ( Unless the cat you are rubbing belongs to Shroedinger :wink:)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triboelectric_effect said:
Although the part 'tribo-' comes from the Greek for "rubbing", τρίβω (τριβή: friction), the two materials only need to come into contact for electrons to be exchanged. After coming into contact, a chemical bond is formed between parts of the two surfaces, called adhesion, and charges move from one material to the other to equalize their electrochemical potential. This is what creates the net charge imbalance between the objects. When separated, some of the bonded atoms have a tendency to keep extra electrons, and some a tendency to give them away, though the imbalance will be partially destroyed by tunneling or electrical breakdown (usually corona discharge). In addition, some materials may exchange ions of differing mobility, or exchange charged fragments of larger molecules.

The triboelectric effect is related to friction only because they both involve adhesion. However, the effect is greatly enhanced by rubbing the materials together, as they touch and separate many times.[4] For surfaces with differing geometry, rubbing may also lead to heating of protrusions, causing pyroelectriccharge separation which may add to the existing contact electrification, or which may oppose the existing polarity. Surface nano-effects are not well understood, and the atomic force microscope has enabled rapid progress in this field of physics.
 
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anorlunda said:
I don't understand why you need quantum effects to explain the tribo electric effect. ( Unless the cat you are rubbing belongs to Shroedinger :wink:)
I just wanted to learn in quantum field theory, electrons also move from one object to another object, for example, when there is an electrical discharge when I touch another person or the door handle?
 
arnoldcena3000 said:
I just wanted to learn in quantum field theory, electrons also move from one object to another object, for example, when there is an electrical discharge when I touch another person or the door handle?

No. The things you mention are not quantum physics. Quantum field theory is a very advanced subject. It takes years of study to get to QFT.

What is your educational background?

Did you understand that stuff I posted from Wikipedia?

Are you looking for ways to learn more physics?
 
Last edited:
anorlunda said:
No. The things you mention are not quantum physics. Quantum field theory is a very advanced subject. It takes years of study to get to QFT.

What is your educational background?

Did you understand that stuff I posted from Wikipedia?

Are you looking for ways to learn more physics?
I apologize for the stupid question. I recently heard about Quantum Field Theory.
I do not need any math, I just want to know how these processes are happening.
 
anorlunda said:
What is your educational background?

Did you understand that stuff I posted from Wikipedia?

You might want to answer these questions.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
You might want to answer these questions.
I have a school education.
I understood the information from Wikipedia.
I want to clarify how this works in Quantum Field Theory.
Is it also the transfer of electrons?
Thank you
 
Your question can't be answered on an Internet forum. The answer would be longer than a thick book.

For an introduction to QFT, try this video.

 
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thanks for the video, very interesting. Once again I apologize. I just want to understand in quantum field theory that electrons are also transferred from one object to another, as in the classical theory? Thank you
 
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arnoldcena3000 said:
thanks for the video, very interesting. Once again I apologize. I just want to understand in quantum field theory that electrons are also transferred from one object to another, as in the classical theory? Thank you

Sorry, the answer is no. But a full explanation would be too long.

Thread closed.
 

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