Quantum Physics: observables, eigenstates and probability

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on observables, eigenstates, and probability measurements related to operators in quantum systems. The original poster presents a problem involving two observables, \widehat{A} and \widehat{B}, with their eigenvalues and eigenfunctions, and seeks to determine the properties of a combined observable \widehat{C}.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the observables and their eigenfunctions, questioning the nature of the measurement outcomes for \widehat{C}. There are discussions about using matrix representations to simplify calculations and clarify the results of measurements. Some participants express confusion regarding the implications of their calculations and the interpretation of eigenvalues and eigenstates.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and suggestions for approaching the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of matrix representations, while others are exploring different interpretations of the measurement outcomes. There is a recognition of the complexity of the topic, with participants expressing varying levels of understanding and confidence.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that some foundational concepts, such as matrix representations of operators, have not yet been covered in their coursework, which may contribute to the confusion. There is also a mention of discrepancies in the solutions provided, indicating a need for careful examination of the calculations and assumptions made.

sgsurrey
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Homework Statement


Observable \widehat{A} has eigenvalues \pm1 with corresponding eigenfunctions u_{+} and u_{-}. Observable \widehat{B} has eigenvalues \pm1 with corresponding eigenfunctions v_{+} and v_{-}.

The eigenfunctions are related by:

v_{+} = (u_{+} + u_{-})/\sqrt{2}
v_{-} = (u_{+} - u_{-})/\sqrt{2}

Show that \widehat{C} =\widehat{A} + \widehat{B} is an observable and find the possible results of a measurement of \widehat{C}.
Find the probability of obtaining each result when a measurement of \widehat{C} is performed on an atom in the state u_{+} and the corresponding state of the atom immediately after the measurement in terms of u_{+} and u_{-} .

Homework Equations


\widehat{A}u_{\pm}=\pm u_{\pm}
\widehat{B}v_{\pm}=\pm v_{\pm}
v_{+} = (u_{+} + u_{-})/\sqrt{2}
v_{-} = (u_{+} - u_{-})/\sqrt{2}
u_{+} = (v_{+} + v_{-})/\sqrt{2}
u_{-} = (v_{+} - v_{-})/\sqrt{2}

The Attempt at a Solution


Showing that C is an observable I have assumed is as simple as the fact that it is a linear combination of the A and B operators, which are observables matching the requirement to have real eigenvalues.

I'm slightly puzzled by the measurement part of the question; I have tried simply:
\widehat{C}v_{+} = \widehat{A}v_{+} + \widehat{B}v_{+}<br /> = \widehat{A}(u_{+} + u_{-})/\sqrt{2} + v_{+} = v_{-} + v_{+} = \sqrt{2}u_{+}

I'm not sure I fully understand this however; I expected a result of the format:
\widehat{C}v_{+} = c_{+}v_{+}
...where c is a 'result of the measurement', the eigenvalue of C. I'm not sure if it is correct to say that \sqrt{2} is the eigenvalue if the resulting eigenfunction is not the same as the starting eigenfunction.

The answer I have been given for this part of the question is \pm\sqrt{2}, but I feel I have now simply found the simplest way to get this in an answer, without understanding why (had I not been lost from the outset I would have avoided looking at the answer in the first place).

For the later part of the question my attempted answer is so far from the solution that I am clueless on how to approach it at this point. I am hoping that with some insight into this first part of the question I might understand how to approach the rest of the question. I would very much appreciate any guidance.
 
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Hi sgsurrey.

Since the question wants you to express the outcome of a measurement of \widehat{C} in terms of u_{+} and u_{-} it might be a good idea to work in the basis u_{+}, u_{-}.
Can you find the matrix representations of \widehat{A}, \widehat{B} , and \widehat{C} with respect to the u_{+}, u_{-} basis?

Once you have the matrix representation of \widehat{C}, you can use it to find the possible results of a measurement of \widehat{C} and the probability of each of those results if the initial state is u_{+}.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your response.

I'm a few weeks into this QM module, I've yet to cover the matrix representations and thus my understanding is lacking in this approach. Since you've suggested this I have realized that this method is outlined a few pages after what I had previously studied in my textbook so far; I will read this now. I'll hopefully then proceed with an attempt at the solution.
 
It's possible to get the answer to this question without matrix representations of the operators. The matrix approach is just kind of a nice way to go about it in my opinion.
 
The matrix method sounds useful, so I'm reading up on it.

As far as I can see so far I can represent each eigenfunction as a vector in terms of the 'u' basis:

u_{+} = \left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ 0 \end{array}\right)
u_{-} = \left(\begin{array}{c} 0 \\ 1 \end{array}\right)
v_{+} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ 1 \end{array}\right)
v_{-} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ -1 \end{array}\right)

Then it seems I can express operator A as:

\widehat{A} = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; -1 \end{array}\right)

Now stuck on operator B...

Are my above assumptions correct?
 
It would appear that B is:

\widehat{B} = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 &amp; 1 \\ 1 &amp; 0 \end{array} \right)

and thus C:

\widehat{C} = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 &amp; 1 \\ 1 &amp; -1 \end{array} \right)

There is probably a much easier way to obtain those matrices than the way I just used (trial and error)...
 
Yes, that looks correct. Formally, you can get the matrix elements for C by noting that the C11 element is <u+|C|u+> = <u+|A|u+> + <u+|B|u+>. To evaluate <u+|B|u+>, express u+ in terms of the v vectors. Likewise, the C12 matrix element is <u+|C|u->, etc.
 
Sorry, it's easier to first find the matrix for B and then just add A and B to find C as you did! You can find the matrix elements for B using the method I described for C.
 
I'm now struggling to understand what this means.

If I operate C on u+, or rather matrix multiply C with the vector, I get the vector:

\widehat{C}u_{+} = \left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ 1 \end{array} \right)

Which clearly has a magnitude \pm\sqrt{2} (which I have in the solutions for this problem)

I'm unsure of how I find the state that the 'atom' is now in... any hints? I feel I am out of my depth with this problem, perhaps I should return to it at a later stage.
 
  • #10
Operating on u+ with C does not correspond to measuring C when the systems is in the state u+, so that's not going to be of much help.

Can you fill in the blank here:

A fundamental postulate of QM is that the result of a measurement of an observable C is always one of the ___________ of C.
 
  • #11
Ah.. got it, sorry, matrix notation getting me confused.

A measurement of an observable will be one of the eigenvalues:

(A-λI)\psi = 0

\left|\begin{array}{cc} 1-λ &amp; 1 \\ 1 &amp; -1-λ \end{array}\right| = 0

λ = ±√2
 
  • #12
Right. And what will the state of the system be after the measurement?
 
  • #13
Then get:

ω_{+}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-2\sqrt{2}}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1-\sqrt{2} \\ 1 \end{array}\right)
ω_{-}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4+2\sqrt{2}}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1+\sqrt{2} \\ 1 \end{array}\right)

and probabilities:

\left(\left&lt;ω_{+}|u_{+}\right&gt;\right)^2 = 0.146
\left(\left&lt;ω_{-}|u_{+}\right&gt;\right)^2 = 0.854

In the solution I have:
ω_{+}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-2\sqrt{2}}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ -(1-\sqrt{2}) \end{array}\right)
ω_{-}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4+2\sqrt{2}}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ -(1+\sqrt{2}) \end{array}\right)
and the probabilities for ω+ and ω- are opposite...

Do you know if this is equivalent; or have I made a mistake?
 
Last edited:
  • #14
I'm now aware that I have made a mistake and will hopefully figure this out later.
 
  • #15
sgsurrey said:
\left(\left&lt;ω_{+}|u_{+}\right&gt;\right)^2 = 0.146
\left(\left&lt;ω_{-}|u_{+}\right&gt;\right)^2 = 0.854

In the solution I have:
ω_{+}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-2\sqrt{2}}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ -(1-\sqrt{2}) \end{array}\right)
ω_{-}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4+2\sqrt{2}}}\left(\begin{array}{c} 1 \\ -(1+\sqrt{2}) \end{array}\right)
and the probabilities for ω+ and ω- are opposite...

Looks good! That's what I got anyway.
 

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