Question about SR in Griffiths

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation of electric and magnetic fields in special relativity as presented in Griffiths' "Intro to Electrodynamics." Participants are exploring the implications of field transformations in different inertial frames, particularly focusing on a parallel plate capacitor and the conditions under which electric or magnetic fields may be zero.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the conditions under which the electric field E could be zero in a frame S, given that it was chosen for its nonzero magnetic field.
  • Another participant argues that there cannot exist a frame where E=0 in this scenario, citing the Lorentz invariance of (E^2-B^2) as a reason.
  • Some participants clarify that Griffiths uses specific physical situations, such as a parallel plate capacitor and a solenoid, to derive transformation equations, but later discusses cases that may not directly relate to these examples.
  • There is a question about the nature of frame S when Griffiths refers to the condition B=0, prompting a discussion about whether S can be any inertial frame.
  • A later reply confirms that Griffiths is referring to an inertial frame S where B=0 and discusses the implications for another frame S' moving with respect to S.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the confusion surrounding the conditions for E and B fields in different frames, but there is no consensus on the interpretation of Griffiths' statements regarding the frames.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion hinges on the understanding of Lorentz transformations and the invariance of electromagnetic quantities, which may depend on specific assumptions about the frames being considered.

VortexLattice
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Hi, I'm reading the section about "How the fields transform" in Griffiths' Intro to Electrodynamics book, but I'm a little confused and want to understand this fully.

He starts off with the example of a parallel plate capacitor where each plate has charge density \sigma _0. So in the rest frame S_0 of the plates, the electric field in between the plates is E_0 = \sigma _0 /\epsilon_0. Then he says, let's look at a frame (S) that's moving parallel to the plates (like, along them) at speed v_0. Then, because the length of the plates is contracted in this frame but the charge is constant, the charge density increases in this frame and thus the E field increases to E = \gamma_0 E_0.

So this makes sense. Then he says he wants to look at magnetic fields. So he says, in frame S, there's a magnetic field due to the surface currents on each plate: K = \sigma v_0. I assume these "surface currents" are from the fact that in frame S, it look like the charge on the plates is moving at the speed S is moving with respect to S_0. If this is true, that makes sense too.

Then he introduces yet another frame, \overline{S}, that's moving at speed v relative to speed S. He derives the equations for the fields in this frame in terms of the fields in frame S. But this is what I'm confused about: He looks at two "special cases", when E = 0 and when B = 0, in frame S. But how can either equal zero? I guess B could be 0 if frame S isn't actually moving at all with respect to S_0, so it's basically the same as S, but I still can't see how E would be 0. I thought we basically chose to look at S because it necessarily has a nonzero magnetic field.

If anyone has a copy handy, it's on pages 525-532. Can anyone help me?

Thanks!
 
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You are right, there cannot exist a frame where E=0 in this scenario since (E^2-B^2) is an Lorentz invariant and so if there exists some frame where E>B, then one cannot transform away E using a Lorentz transformation (and vice versa).

As I don't have a copy of the book, I can't really help much more than that, sorry.
 
Griffiths uses two specific physical situations, a parallel plate capacitor and a solenoid, to motivate the transformation equations for general fields. After Griffiths writes down the general transformation equations, he then treats cases that don't necessarily have anything to do with the motivating cases.
 
George Jones said:
Griffiths uses two specific physical situations, a parallel plate capacitor and a solenoid, to motivate the transformation equations for general fields. After Griffiths writes down the general transformation equations, he then treats cases that don't necessarily have anything to do with the motivating cases.

Ok, but he's still referring to some type of frame when he says "When B = 0 is frame S". So what is S here, just any type of frame now?
 
VortexLattice said:
Ok, but he's still referring to some type of frame when he says "When B = 0 is frame S". So what is S here, just any type of frame now?


Yes, Griffiths means:

"Suppose there is an electromagnetic field and an inertial frame S such that in S, B = 0. Then, in another inertial frame S' that moves with velocity v with respect to S, ..."
 
George Jones said:
Yes, Griffiths means:

"Suppose there is an electromagnetic field and an inertial frame S such that in S, B = 0. Then, in another inertial frame S' that moves with velocity v with respect to S, ..."

Ahhh, ok, thanks!
 

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