Question about the nature of electrons and the strong force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of electrons in the context of electric currents and their interactions, particularly focusing on why electrons do not repel each other at distances relevant to current flow, despite their like charges. The scope includes conceptual understanding and technical explanations related to electrostatics and atomic structure.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why electrons in a current do not repel each other at larger distances, contrasting their behavior with protons that are held together by the strong force.
  • Another participant suggests that electrostatic attraction to protons or nuclei balances the repulsive forces between electrons, noting that charge densities in metals are equal.
  • A later reply challenges the previous explanation, asking how it addresses the original question about electrons being able to come close enough to produce a current.
  • Another participant elaborates that if electrons were to fly apart, the positively charged nuclei would create an attractive field that would draw the electrons back, maintaining neutrality.
  • Further clarification is provided that within an atom, electrons are bound by the attraction to the nucleus, and in a current, electrons move through a lattice structure, where the arrangement of extra and missing electrons facilitates current flow.
  • It is noted that while electrons repel each other, they can still come close due to the binding effects of atoms and other fundamental principles like the Pauli exclusion principle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms that allow electrons to come close together without widely repelling each other. There is no consensus on a single explanation, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nuances of electron behavior in currents.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the balance of forces acting on electrons, the dependence on atomic structure, and the complexities involved in modeling current flow in conductive materials.

noblegas
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How can electrons that make up a current not repel each other at far distances due to their like charges? I understand why protons are bunched up together , because of the strong force. Though electrons are not packed up against one another like protons and neutrons, they are still a short distance apart from each other that's needed to create a current. Since the strong force is not governing the motion of electrons, what phenomena prevents electrons from spreading far apart from each other?
 
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Electrostatic attraction to protons or to nuclei. The average positive and negative charge densities in metals are equal.
 
Bob_for_short said:
Electrostatic attraction to protons or to nuclei. The average positive and negative charge densities in metals are equal.

How does your explanation answer my question about why electrons do not widely fly apart but instead you can bring electrons close enough to each other to produce a current?
 
If the electrons fly apart, the positively charged nuclei will remain and create such an attractive field that the electrons will return to neutralize it.
 
noblegas said:
How does your explanation answer my question about why electrons do not widely fly apart but instead you can bring electrons close enough to each other to produce a current?

There are a couple of issues here. Inside an atom, the electron is bound by the attraction of the positive charge of the nucleus.

As to a current, this is usually modeled by a lattice arrangement where electrons have a degree of freedom to move from atom to atom.

So the presence of "extra" electrons and atoms with "missing" electrons (within the lattice structure) leads to a current from one place to the other. The net result being a more stable arrangement, in simple terms. It is not that hard to bring one electron near another, although clearly the repulsive force increases as they get closer. So generally, if the atom is not binding them, they do tend to repel. There are other fundamental issues as well, such as the Pauli exclusion principle.

So if there is something specific you are driving at, you might want to lay that out.
 

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