Question about Walter Brattain’s field-effect transistor principle.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the principles of Walter Brattain's field-effect transistor (FET) and the mechanics behind how electrical contacts applied to a germanium crystal can result in an output power larger than the input. Participants explore the underlying semiconductor physics, the operation of transistors, and the historical context of these devices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how electrical contacts can lead to a power output larger than the input, expressing skepticism about the mechanism involved.
  • Another participant explains the relationship between transistors and diodes, mentioning the role of n and p semiconductors and surface effects in crystal amplifiers.
  • A participant suggests that understanding semiconductor physics and circuit theory is essential for grasping the operation of FETs, recommending further research on related topics.
  • Discussion includes a historical reference to Lilienfeld's work with cadmium sulfide and its limitations in gain.
  • One participant clarifies that a transistor has three contacts, indicating that the output power can exceed the input signal power due to the nature of amplification, countering the notion of a typo or overunity.
  • Another participant reiterates that the output power is a combination of AC and DC inputs, further explaining the amplification process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of output power in relation to input power, with some asserting that amplification is possible while others question the clarity of the original statement regarding power output. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the initial query about the nature of the power output.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate that a foundational understanding of diode theory and semiconductor physics is necessary to fully engage with the topic, suggesting that assumptions about prior knowledge may affect the clarity of the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in semiconductor physics, transistor operation, and the historical development of electronic components may find this discussion relevant.

Cyrus80772
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Question about Walter Brattain’s “field-effect transistor principle”.

The Wikipedia says “On 17 November 1947 John Bardeen and Walter Brattain observed that when electrical contacts were applied to a crystal of germanium the output power was larger than the input.“

Can someone please elaborate on how electrical contacts can be applied to a germanium crystal to make a power output larger than the input?

I don't see how you can get the current or the field to intensify just by putting a crystal inside a circuit.
 
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A transistor (effectively a switch or an amplifier) is very closely related to a pair of diodes (effectively one-way valves).

The simplest way to see this is to look up vacuum tube valves and then triodes.

Rather than using vacuum tubes, another way to produce these devices is by joining two types of crystal (see n and p semiconductors). A less intuitive way to get the same result is by using surface effects on a single crystal (see "point contact" or "cat's whisker" diodes and triodes).

Note here that a crystal amplifier works the same as a car stereo amplifier: the amplifier does not produce power (it just controls the flow of an applied power source, like a switch). But the technology is pretty cute: you can build a "foxhole radio" with nothing more than a rusty razor blade, a length of wire with a pointy end, and an earphone.

..as for the FET, wasn't that Shockley?
 
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How much semiconductor physics have you had? How about e/m field theory, circuit theory? You ask a broad question. It is hard to answer in a paragraph. The FET you refer to is explained all over the web. Search using the words "field effect transistor operation holes electrons". Also, you may include "majority carrier inversion insulated gate".

Are you reasonably familiar with diode theory of operation, i.e. electrons and holes? If not, I'd begin with that, and then work into transistors, FET or bjt. BR.

Claude
 
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If I remember correctly the material Lilienfeld used for his mesfet wasn't germanium nor silicon but cadmium sulfide. With it he was able to make an amplifier that inverted the input signal but unfortunately the gain was always less than 1.
 


skeptic2 said:
Lilienfeld [..] was able to make an amplifier that inverted the input signal but unfortunately the gain was always less than 1.
Seems like a typical use of the patent system: condemn everyone [else] to only using vacuum tubes for the next two decades ("for the good of society and progress").
 


Thanks for the response,

I understand that when you use a crystal amplifier that it just modulates the output of the power supply. I just don’t understand what they ment when they said…

“John Bardeen and Walter Brattain observed that when electrical contacts were applied to a crystal of germanium the output power was larger than the input.”

How can you have more output power than input power? That sounds like “overunity”. I guess this was just a typo?
 


A transistor has three contacts. One provides constant access to a large amount of power input. The next inputs a small amount of power in the form of a signal. The third is the signal output. By definition, the output signal must have more power than the input signal, or it wouldn't be an amplifier. There is no typo and no overunity, you're just forgetting about one of the three contacts.
 


Cyrus80772 said:
How can you have more output power than input power? That sounds like “overunity”. I guess this was just a typo?
Stating cesiumfrog's comment another way, you are also supplying a DC bias in addition to the AC signal. The AC output power is less than the sum of AC + DC input powers.
 
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in which field transistor is used widely
 

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