Question involving calculations with a parabola

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the equation of a parabola given its focus at (0,0) and the equation of the tangent at the vertex, which is x - y + 1 = 0. Participants explore the general equation of conic sections and the specific conditions for a parabola, including the relationship h² - ab = 0.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss expressing the focus and tangent in terms of coefficients from the general conic equation. There are questions about the derivation of the condition h² - ab = 0 and its implications for the equation of the parabola. Some suggest substituting values and exploring geometric interpretations, while others question the clarity of the definitions and relationships involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active with various approaches being explored, including geometric interpretations and algebraic manipulations. Some participants are seeking clarification on the relationships between coefficients and the conditions for a parabola, while others are attempting to derive further insights from the given information.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of missing context regarding the definitions of coefficients a, b, and h, as well as the implications of the tangent line's relationship to the vertex and focus. Participants are also navigating the complexities of the general equation of conic sections and how it relates to specific cases of parabolas.

Kaushik
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Summary: Find the equation of the parabola when the focus and the equation of tangent at the vertex is known.

Find the equation of the parabola when the focus is ##(0,0)## and the equation of tangent at the vertex is ##x - y + 1 = 0##.

General equation : ## ax^2 + by^2 + 2hxy + 2gx + 2fy + c = 0##
Apart from this I have another question. It is given in my textbook that ##h^2 - ab = 0## for the general equation to represent parabola. Why or from where is this derived?
 
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This fits better into our homework section.

Can you express the focus as function of a,b,c,h,g,f? Similarly, the tangent at the vertex will lead to additional equation that you can use to find the coefficients.

Kaushik said:
It is given in my textbook that ##h^2 - ab = 0## for the general equation to represent parabola. Why or from where is this derived?
This is missing context what h, a and b are.
 
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mfb said:
This is missing context what h, a and b are.
I think before going to HW question it would be better if you clarify this.
As I said ##h, b## and ##a## are coefficients from the general equation:
## ax^2 + by^2 + 2hxy + 2gx + 2fy + c = 0##
 
Kaushik said:
It is given in my textbook that ##h^2 - ab = 0## for the general equation to represent parabola. Why or from where is this derived
If you substitute that in the quadratic, what factorisation can you do?
 
haruspex said:
If you substitute that in the quadratic, what factorisation can you do?
Substitute what?
 
Another (different) approach. If you plot what you are given, you can easily see the vertex is at ##(-\frac 1 2, \frac 1 2)## and the directrix is ##y = x + 2##. The definition of a parabola requires the distance from the parabola to the focus = the distance from the parabola to the directrix. You have some 45-45-90 right triangles to make the distances easy to calculate.
 
Kaushik said:
Find the equation of the parabola when the focus is ##(0,0)## and the equation of tangent at the vertex is ##x - y + 1 = 0##.

General equation : ## ax^2 + by^2 + 2hxy + 2gx + 2fy + c = 0##
Apart from this I have another question. It is given in my textbook that ##h^2 - ab = 0## for the general equation to represent parabola. Why or from where is this derived?
The general equation you show above is not that of a parabola -- it is the general equation of a conic section, which could be a circle, parabola, ellipse, or hyperbola.
All of these conic sections have an ##x^2## term or a ##y^2## term (or both) as well as terms in x and y, and a constant term. If the conic section has been rotated, it will have an ##xy## term.

haruspex said:
If you substitute that in the quadratic, what factorisation can you do?
I don't think that substituting ##h^2 = ab## will do anything here. This is just the relationship that parabolas have with regard to the general equation of a conic section.

#Kaushik, since you are given that the line ##x - y + 1 = 0## is tangent to the parabola at its vertex, it follows that the axis of symmetry of the parabola makes an angle of 45° with the y-axis, and this axis of symmetry runs through the 2nd and 4th quadrants.

I would start by drawing a sketch of this tangent line, then drawing a rough sketch of the parabola, which must open down into the 4th quadrant. The vertex of the parabola is on the line ##x - y + 1 = 0##, and the focus is at (0, 0), so you should be able to find the coordinates of the vertex, and from that, p, which plays a role in the definition of a parabola.

This PDF, http://www.cengage.com/resource_uploads/downloads/1285060288_382318.pdf, might be helpful.
 
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Kaushik said:
Why or from where is this derived?
@Mark44 Could you answer the above question? Or did I miss it in your previous post?
 
I said this in my previous post.
Mark44 said:
All of these conic sections have an ##x^2## term or a ##y^2## term (or both) as well as terms in x and y, and a constant term. If the conic section has been rotated, it will have an ##xy## term.
 
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  • #10
Mark44 said:
I said this in my previous post.
But I don't find how that is related to ##h^2 = ab## condition for parabola.
 
  • #11
Kaushik said:
But I don't find how that is related to ##h^2 = ab## condition for parabola.
Take a look at the PDF I linked to earlier, especially Theorem D.1.
 
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  • #12
Kaushik said:
Substitute what?
Use h2=ab to replace h in the quadratic.
It will be clearer what to do next if you replace a and b with their square roots: A2=a, B2=b, h=AB.
 
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  • #13
haruspex said:
Use h2=ab to replace h in the quadratic.
It will be clearer what to do next if you replace a and b with their square roots: A2=a, B2=b, h=AB.
I tried substituting but It doesn't seem to help me either. I think I missing something here. I'm sorry but would be nice if you give few more hints?
 
  • #14
Kaushik said:
I tried substituting but It doesn't seem to help me either. I think I missing something here. I'm sorry but would be nice if you give few more hints?
After the substitution, what do the three quadratic terms look like? Can you see a factorisation? If you don't, post what you get.
 
  • #15
I was thinking of a different approach, which I see is what @Mark44 is suggesting.

Let's start with the equation for a parabola which opens up along the ##\pm y## axis. This would have the form ##y = r(x - s)^2 + t## so it will have only ##y##, ##x##, ##x^2## and constant terms. Using your form, that means it has the form ##ax^2+2gx+2fy+c=0##.

Then apply Theorem D.1 from @Mark44's reference, rotating the coordinate axes by an arbitrary ##\theta##. That is, make the substitution ##x = x' \cos \theta - y' \sin \theta##, ##y = x' \sin \theta + y' \cos \theta##. This will give the equation for a parabola at an arbitrary angle relative to the ##x,y## axes.

If you get terms in ##(x')^2##, ##(y')^2## and ##x'y'##, see how the coefficients are related.
 
  • #16
Since this thread seems to have fizzled out, I will explain my approach in post #12.

After the substitution we get (Ax+By)2+2gx+2fy+c=0.
It follows that ##2gx+2fy+c\leq 0##, so the curve is restricted to a half plane. Thus it is a parabola. Moreover, ##2gx+2fy+c=0## must be a tangent, though not necessarily at the vertex, and at the point of contact Ax+By=0.

What might not be quite so obvious is that the line Ax+By=0 must be parallel to the axis. In the present case, we are told the focus is at the origin. It follows that the axis goes through the origin, so Ax+By=0 is the axis and the tangent we found touches at the vertex.

Plugging in the given equation for that tangent we can start determining the coefficients.
 
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  • #17
Can't leave the easiest method to die on the vine here :smile: . From the given we know the focus is at ##(0,0)## and the vertex is at ##(-\frac 1 2,\frac 1 2)##. It follows that the directrix is ##y = x+2## from the geometry. Here's a picture with a couple of additions I will explain below:
parabola.jpg

If ##P(x_p,y_p)## is a point on the parabola, its distances ##d## from the directrix and focus are the same. Distance from the focus is ##d=\sqrt{x_p^2+y_p^2}##. Distance from the directrix is the leg of the ##45^\circ 45^\circ 90^\circ## triangle ##PQR## with hypotenuse ##h = x_p - (y_p-2)## (the blue line). So ##d =\frac{x_p-y_p+2}{\sqrt 2}##. Square these two expressions for ##d##, set them equal, and drop the ##p## subscripts, and you have your equation.
 
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  • #18
LCKurtz said:
vertex is at ##(−1/2,1/2)##
How did you conclude that the vertex is at that point?
 
  • #19
That's the point of the tangent of the vertex closest to the focus.
 
  • #20
mfb said:
That's the point of the tangent of the vertex closest to the focus.
I'm not sure I understand
 
  • #21
Kaushik said:
I'm not sure I understand
Draw any parabola on a piece of paper and the tangent line at its vertex. The focus is on the axis of the parabola and the closest point on the tangent line to the focus is the vertex. Also the axis of the parabola and the tangent line are perpendicular at that point.
 
  • #22
LCKurtz said:
Can't leave the easiest method to die on the vine here
This is exactly the approach I was suggesting in post #7.
 

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