Question regarding Biot-Savart law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Biot-Savart law, focusing on its mathematical formulation and the interpretation of vector definitions within the context of electromagnetic theory. Participants explore the setup of a specific problem related to the law, including the definitions of vectors and the implications of different notations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the definition of the vector $$ \vec{r} $$ in the context of the Biot-Savart law, suggesting an alternative formulation based on their mathematical background.
  • Another participant provides a detailed explanation of the Biot-Savart law as a solution to the Poisson equation for the vector potential, discussing its derivation and implications for static magnetic fields.
  • A third participant expresses unfamiliarity with the Poisson equation and related concepts, indicating a gap in understanding despite grasping the law's application.
  • One participant proposes that the choice of using -z in the vector definition may relate to the symmetry of the problem, suggesting that contributions from wire elements at different positions yield the same result due to reflective symmetry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition of vectors in the Biot-Savart law and the clarity of its presentation. There is no consensus on the appropriateness of the vector definitions or the notation used in the law.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential confusion arising from the notation and definitions used in the Biot-Savart law, as well as the implications of symmetry in the problem setup. Some assumptions about familiarity with advanced concepts like the Poisson equation and gauge theories are evident.

cwbullivant
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In my E&M class yesterday, in going over an example for the Biot-Savart law, I couldn't quite understand the initial setup of a problem (this may be more of a math question, but given the source, I figured it ought to be posted here). The attached picture is a crude MS Paint reproduction of the graph shown in class (letters are color coded to correspond to the line or figure they represent); I don't have a working scanner at the moment, and even if I did, this is a lot more legible than my handwriting.

Ok, the question:

trffKN5.png


In the diagram, we defined $$ \vec{ds} , \vec{r}, |r| , and \sin{\theta} $$

ds, r, and sin θ were quite straightforward.

But in defining $$ \vec{r} $$, we used:
$$ \vec{r} = y\hat{y} - z\hat{z} $$ (using y and z as unit vectors instead of j and k)

Given that the vector r points from (y, z) = (0, -z) to (y, 0), I'd have expected it to be defined as:

$$ \vec{r} = y\hat{y} + z\hat{z} $$

As that's how every math class I've taken would have defined it; the calculation appeared to work out (dB pointing into the page) using the definition put on the board, but I can't understand why it was chosen.
 
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I also don't understand, why often the Biot-Savart Law and other formulae like it are presented in such an awkward manner. It's just the solution of the Poisson equation for the vector potential in Coulomb gauge for static magnetic fields, which reads (in Heaviside-Lorentz units)
\Delta \vec{A}=-\vec{j}.
The solution is then simple to state by analogy to the solution for the scalar potential via Coulomb's Law, i.e.,
\vec{A}=\frac{1}{4 \pi} \int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x}' \frac{\vec{j}(\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.
To get the magnetic field, you have to take the curl of this expression
\vec{B}=\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{A}.
Differentiating under the integral you need to calculate an expression of the form
\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{a} f(\vec{x})=-\vec{a} \times \vec{\nabla} f(\vec{x}),
because \vec{a} is a vector independent of \vec{x}. Then we use
\vec{\nabla} \frac{1}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}=-\frac{\vec{x}-\vec{x}'}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|^3}.
This finally gives
\vec{B}(\vec{x})=\frac{1}{4 \pi} \int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x}' \vec{j}(\vec{x}') \times \frac{\vec{x}-\vec{x}'}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|^3}.

For a current along a wire this simplifies to
\vec{B}(\vec{x})=\frac{I}{4 \pi} \int_{C} \mathrm{d} \vec{x}' \times \frac{\vec{x}-\vec{x}'}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|^3}.
Notet that this formula only holds for a closed loop C. The reason for this is that the Biot-Savart Law for a static field can only be the solution of the magnetotstatic Maxwell equations if \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j}=0, because otherwise the constraint \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{B}=0 (no magnetic monopoles!) is violated.

Unfortunately the English Wikipedia gives the Biot-Savart Law in the usual awkward notation. For those who understand German, here it's given in the more precise notation (including a derivation):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biot-Savart-Gesetz
 
vanhees71 said:
I also don't understand, why often the Biot-Savart Law and other formulae like it are presented in such an awkward manner. It's just the solution of the Poisson equation for the vector potential in Coulomb gauge for static magnetic fields, which reads (in Heaviside-Lorentz units)

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the Posson equation, gauges, or Heaviside-Lorentz units.

The law itself I understood when carrying out the calculation. I simply couldn't why the r-vector used in the equation was defined with a -z instead of a +z.
 
The contribution from a wire element at (0,-z) will be the same as that from a wire element at (0,+z).

My guess is he's done it for the semi-infinite wire and multiplied by two. The reflective symmetry of the problem along the z=0 plane should mean you get the same answer upon swapping z for -z.
 

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