Questions on polar and nonpolar molecules

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of polar and nonpolar molecules, particularly in the context of introductory chemistry homework problems. Participants explore the nature of molecular dipoles, the role of electronegativity, and the implications of molecular structure on polarity.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a molecule can have only nonpolar bonds and still possess a dipole, with initial thoughts suggesting that only diatomic molecules of the same element exhibit nonpolar bonds.
  • One participant suggests that ammonia (NH3) is an example that may contradict the initial assumption about nonpolar bonds and dipoles.
  • Another participant notes that the bonds in ammonia are polar, with hydrogen being slightly positive and nitrogen slightly negative, and asks how to determine the equality of electron sharing between different atoms.
  • A participant introduces the concept of electronegativity as a means to understand bond polarity, indicating that elements like halogens have a strong attraction for electrons compared to metals like sodium.
  • There is a question about whether the dipole in ammonia arises from the polar bonds or the presence of a non-bonded electron pair, with some participants suggesting both factors contribute to the dipole.
  • In discussing CH4 and CF4, one participant clarifies that while these molecules do not have dipoles, they may have internal dipoles that cancel out, indicating a need for clearer wording in the question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between bond polarity and molecular dipoles, with some suggesting that nonpolar bonds can lead to dipoles under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as electronegativity and molecular geometry, but there are limitations in the clarity of definitions and the assumptions underlying their claims. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or conceptual intricacies involved.

Bohrok
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Some chem students need help with homework problems similar to these later this week. and I want to make sure I've got the concepts down before I try to explain anything. This is for introductory chemistry.

1. Can a molecule have only nonpolar bonds and have a dipole?
My first thought was no, that only molecules made of the same element have nonpolar bonds. As far as I can tell, this applies to diatomic molecules like F2 and not others like O3 after reading up on Wikipedia.
Am I correct or is there an exception?

2. a) Would you expect CH4 or CF4 molecules to have dipoles?
No
b) Would you expect CH2F2 molecules to have dipoles?
Yes
c) Explain
Since fluorine is more electronegative than hydrogen, the "side" of the CH2F2 molecule with the fluorines will be slightly more negative than the "side" with hydrogens, making the molecule have dipoles.

3. Why is the polarity of the covalent bonds in NaNO2 of little interest compared with that in a covalent molecule such as NO2?
Not quite sure how to explain this one. The covalent bonds in NaNO2 are in the NO2- ion which has a -1 charge, while the NO2 molecule has no net charge. Is it that a net charge "overshadows" whatever polar covalent bonds may exist in something like NaNO2?
 
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Bohrok said:
Some chem students need help with homework problems similar to these later this week. and I want to make sure I've got the concepts down before I try to explain anything. This is for introductory chemistry.

1. Can a molecule have only nonpolar bonds and have a dipole?
My first thought was no, that only molecules made of the same element have nonpolar bonds. As far as I can tell, this applies to diatomic molecules like F2 and not others like O3 after reading up on Wikipedia.
Am I correct or is there an exception?
Think about ammonia.
 
I would think the bonds between H and N in ammonia are polar with the hydrogens being slightly positive and nitrogen slightly negative. The textbook says that electrons shared between elements that are not the same are generally not shared equally. Is there a way to tell how equally electrons are shared by two such atoms?
 
OK. In ammonia, is the dipole due to the polar nature of the bonds or is it due to the non-bonded electron pair?
 
Both I think: the lone pair causes a slight negative charge on the N, and nitrogen attracts electrons more than hydrogen, much like the oxygen in H2O.
I see that it has a dipole, but not that its bonds are nonpolar.
 
Bohrok said:
2. a) Would you expect CH4 or CF4 molecules to have dipoles?
No

Not clear to me. To BE dipoles - no. To HAVE dipoles in their internal structures, dipoles that cancel out - yes. Could be that's nitpicking, but question can be easily clarified by rewording.

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