Quietly Pump Water 11ft - Ideas for Sump Pump Solutions

[gloo]

As best I recall you never restrict intake and you can choke the discharge but never completely (that has to do with heat buildup in the seal area).
You might look at diaphragm pumps these can be air operated (or electric) and they are positive displacement pumps that can be operated at very slow speeds, here a speed controller would give just a bout any flow you need.

Ron! This I have never seen or heard of. Can you tell me if there are ones that pump up to 12 feet of water in height and can do it slowly? Can you tell me if these are quiet? I seen some on youtube but can't tell how quiet they are.

If you can give me any advice on these I would be very appreciative.

G

 

[gloo]

Hi gloo,
I have to ask, what is the water table elevation ? how high in the basement would water stand if all systems failed to operate for an extended time ?
It sounds like this is a continual seepage, does the rate change a lot after rains ? or do you live on the downhill side of some type of water flow ?
I think you can make a speed control work, but be careful that you don't change the design operation to where you are paying almost as much to run the motor and only pump half the volume.

Oh sorry, the water can be just at lip of sump pit...or can be as high as 1 foot of water if the sump does not pump at all.

 

[gloo]

As best I recall you never restrict intake and you can choke the discharge but never completely (that has to do with heat buildup in the seal area).
You might look at diaphragm pumps these can be air operated (or electric) and they are positive displacement pumps that can be operated at very slow speeds, here a speed controller would give just a bout any flow you need.

Ok ...just saw one(air diaphram pump)...and they might be too loud. It has this constant air flicking sound as diaphram pulsates. Are there ones that are really silent? do you think putting them in a box would help?

 

[Danger]

Gonna have to get a plumber to fix a lot of things...just don't want to get rapped on the price. They are just rip off artist trying to charge like 100 bucks an hour for labour.

I missed this before, and must take objection to it. It's not cheap to be a plumber. When I became a locksmith, and formed my own company, I started at $20/hour. I got out of the business about 15 years ago at $50/hour because I couldn't afford to continue. (It was a flat-rate for most jobs, based upon the fact that one should take 20 minutes at what I used as my hourly-rate base.) Aside from arthritis, the main reason that I quit was because we became classified as a trade rather than a vocation. Even though I would have been grandfathered in, to maintain my license the new tools and upgrading courses that I would have needed would have cost me over $100,000. I had about $130 in the bank. I said to hell with it and took on more bartending shifts instead. What I told anyone who complained (and just as many tipped me as did complained) is that no matter how little time it took they weren't paying me for doing the work; they were paying me for knowing how to do it. Anybody can unlock someone's car, but how many have over $10,000 worth of manuals and custom tools, not to mention college fees from the past, to ensure that they can do it without damaging anything? (I have a sadistically amusing story along that line, but I don't want to derail the thread further.)

 

[gloo]

As best I recall you never restrict intake and you can choke the discharge but never completely (that has to do with heat buildup in the seal area).
You might look at diaphragm pumps these can be air operated (or electric) and they are positive displacement pumps that can be operated at very slow speeds, here a speed controller would give just a bout any flow you need.

Ron, I can't tell if the sound (youtube videos) are caused by air moving around and jamming or some other mechanical sound. You said there is difference between air and electric diaphrams?? Will electric be quieter? Or is it electric motor pushing air and other parts still causing loud noises?

 

[RonL]

Ron, I can't tell if the sound (youtube videos) are caused by air moving around and jamming or some other mechanical sound. You said there is difference between air and electric diaphrams?? Will electric be quieter? Or is it electric motor pushing air and other parts still causing loud noises?

Hi gloo,
You have a lot of good information already and I'm not sure why you seem to want to change what you have (I think it can be made to run very quite and be the least expensive thing) now with that said...I'll likely confirm my age here and give an example of something it sounds like you want to hear.
I have a very old (Gould) 4" trash pump (it has a broken diaphragm and no replacement that I can find) powered by 8 horsepower gas. If converted to electric and speed controlled, it could be reduced to a 1/2" intake and cycled at just one or two cycles per hour, I don't remember off the top of my head what the diaphragm chamber volume is (I think about 2 or 3 gallons). It would have to be leak free on the intake side and operated at slow speed because of the small intake line but...?
Lots of way to change things, unless you have that DIY creative mentality I think you should repair what you have , as it is.
I agree with Danger's comment, but also I have paid 85.00 per hour and received a new hire hand (first day on the job) to diagnose my AC system (it did turn out to be a recall job).
I feel that Travis King has given much good information, so I feel I have little else to offer, I'll extend my best wishes for your efforts to make the best decision for repairs:)

RonL

 

[gloo]

I missed this before, and must take objection to it. It's not cheap to be a plumber. When I became a locksmith, and formed my own company, I started at $20/hour. I got out of the business about 15 years ago at $50/hour because I couldn't afford to continue. (It was a flat-rate for most jobs, based upon the fact that one should take 20 minutes at what I used as my hourly-rate base.) Aside from arthritis, the main reason that I quit was because we became classified as a trade rather than a vocation. Even though I would have been grandfathered in, to maintain my license the new tools and upgrading courses that I would have needed would have cost me over $100,000. I had about $130 in the bank. I said to hell with it and took on more bartending shifts instead. What I told anyone who complained (and just as many tipped me as did complained) is that no matter how little time it took they weren't paying me for doing the work; they were paying me for knowing how to do it. Anybody can unlock someone's car, but how many have over $10,000 worth of manuals and custom tools, not to mention college fees from the past, to ensure that they can do it without damaging anything? (I have a sadistically amusing story along that line, but I don't want to derail the thread further.)

Danger, i am not against all trades. I tell you what i got charged..2 sump pumps worth about 320, and piping worth about 100 bucks. He worked for 5 hours, didn't do a good job, and i got charged 1300 plus tax. So i was being nice when I said 100 an hour. They always quote low (they said 900)...then it always goes higher. I feel gyped.

 

[Danger]

I feel gyped.

Given that experience, I agree with you with regard to that one company. I've heard of that happening in all various trades, but it's rare in Canada (the worst are fly-by-night building contractors such as unskilled roofers and some automotive mechanics); our fraud laws are pretty stringent. One of my most rigid (and self-destructive) rules was that I absolutely never exceeded a quote. I got burned a lot of times on that one. One (or several?) of the examples is the couple of times that I broke a customer's car window while either unlocking the vehicle or removing the door lock cylinder for either fitting a key or recoding it to a new one. I had an arrangement with one of the local glass companies that if it happened I would send the customer to them, they would have immediate priority service, and I would pay for it. In the 3 cases of that, I ended up paying $250 dollars to my friends at Crystal Glass on a job that I'd billed at (in the most expensive quote) $35. The absolute worst one, though, was when I quoted $500 or so (including the $300 price of the Medeco high-security locks) for a job that ended up taking me 4 days of non-stop work (except for sleeping on the floor once in a while and nibbling sandwiches; the house was still vacant at the time) and requiring the purchase of several new tools. When I tried to collect a month or so later, after they had moved in, the wife just flat-out said that I wasn't going to get paid and demanded that I leave her property. I tried to contact her husband, who is the one that hired me, several times both at home and at work with no response. About a year later, the authorities found him half-mummified in the house right where she'd killed him. She's been in the nut-house ever since.

 

[gloo]

Hi gloo,
You have a lot of good information already and I'm not sure why you seem to want to change what you have (I think it can be made to run very quite and be the least expensive thing) now with that said...I'll likely confirm my age here and give an example of something it sounds like you want to hear.
I have a very old (Gould) 4" trash pump (it has a broken diaphragm and no replacement that I can find) powered by 8 horsepower gas. If converted to electric and speed controlled, it could be reduced to a 1/2" intake and cycled at just one or two cycles per hour, I don't remember off the top of my head what the diaphragm chamber volume is (I think about 2 or 3 gallons). It would have to be leak free on the intake side and operated at slow speed because of the small intake line but...?
Lots of way to change things, unless you have that DIY creative mentality I think you should repair what you have , as it is.
I agree with Danger's comment, but also I have paid 85.00 per hour and received a new hire hand (first day on the job) to diagnose my AC system (it did turn out to be a recall job).
I feel that Travis King has given much good information, so I feel I have little else to offer, I'll extend my best wishes for your efforts to make the best decision for repairs:)

RonL

Thanks for your help Ron. Yes I know that everyone here has given a lot of helpful ideas and the advice here is top notch from smart people. I do not have the technical and financial wherewithal to tinker much. The truth is, I am I trying to sell my house and this high water table issue may scare some people. I do not have too big an issue cause I am handy enough to just swap out a sump pump every few years. There are many many houses that were built in and around high water tables and they run sump pumps constantly. Most just accept it as something they will deal with. I just wanted something quiet to show that night time and sleep will not be an issue with the sound of a sump. I sleep no problems, and so does my daughter...but my wife is more sensitive although she sleeps fine. I just don't want someone to fear this feature.

I would love to be able to find a quiet pump that pumps slowly (100 gph) with decent lift (12 feet) for about 8 hours on some kind of timer...this would be for the night. The day will just be the regular sump. This is why i was such a pest in asking all these questions.

 

[Danger]

This is why i was such a pest in asking all these questions.

That's not being a pest; that's trying to find answers. That's what PF is here for.

So, I suppose that it's too late to suggest that you just fill your basement with rice and invite your neighbours over for pot-luck supper once in a while...?

 

[gloo]

That's not being a pest; that's trying to find answers. That's what PF is here for.

So, I suppose that it's too late to suggest that you just fill your basement with rice and invite your neighbours over for pot-luck supper once in a while...?

I will do that if it makes the world a better place Danger.

 

[Danger]

I will do that if it makes the world a better place Danger.

:D

 

[RonL]

Thanks for your help Ron. Yes I know that everyone here has given a lot of helpful ideas and the advice here is top notch from smart people. I do not have the technical and financial wherewithal to tinker much. The truth is, I am I trying to sell my house and this high water table issue may scare some people. I do not have too big an issue cause I am handy enough to just swap out a sump pump every few years. There are many many houses that were built in and around high water tables and they run sump pumps constantly. Most just accept it as something they will deal with. I just wanted something quiet to show that night time and sleep will not be an issue with the sound of a sump. I sleep no problems, and so does my daughter...but my wife is more sensitive although she sleeps fine. I just don't want someone to fear this feature.

I would love to be able to find a quiet pump that pumps slowly (100 gph) with decent lift (12 feet) for about 8 hours on some kind of timer...this would be for the night. The day will just be the regular sump. This is why i was such a pest in asking all these questions.

I really would like to hear the specs of water table and how deep the storm drain might be, I understand you need to pump up to get out of the basement, but how low below discharge point is the storm drain ? there might be some siphon possibilities.
Is this a steady flow or does anything cause increase or decrease, and what temperature is the water ? if it stays the same temperature you might have some heat pump value ?

 

[AlanC]

Does anyone know much about electrical timers? Is there one that is reliable and can be programmed to turn on for 10 min and then shut off? Is it better to get the ones with dials rather than digital timers which could possibly go wonky after a year or two?

G

I use various timers for Security System Design The Altronix 6062 can be setup for 4 different functions and would do a 10 min then off after triggered

http://www.altronix.com/index.php?pid=2&model_num=6062
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006TZEDS/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[DaveC426913]

But you are telling me using the speed controller is not a good idea?? Why is it ok for things like ceiling fan motors versus the motors on the pond pumps?

Unfortunately, I cannot back up my suspicion with facts.

 

[gloo]

I really would like to hear the specs of water table and how deep the storm drain might be, I understand you need to pump up to get out of the basement, but how low below discharge point is the storm drain ? there might be some siphon possibilities.
Is this a steady flow or does anything cause increase or decrease, and what temperature is the water ? if it stays the same temperature you might have some heat pump value ?

Ron, the storm drain is higher up than basement floor...that is my problem. I did everything i could to try to adapt siphon but it won't do unless I drill a hole to the other side of the ravine across the street (illegal).

The water table has gotten to the lip of my sump pit and stayed there for a week...but then i got a flood alarm and had to turn sump back on. Way back in construction, it went about 10 inches above my basement floor. Temperature? Not sure...i guess it's steady.

 

[gloo]

Unfortunately, I cannot back up my suspicion with facts.

I value your opinion and appreciate your help Dave. I have an aquarium pump and really want to try that speed controller. I wish Russ would come back and give me some guidance on what he knows. I talked to Home Depot and Lowe's personnel and they don't know anything about controllers other than it is used on ceiling fans.

I was wondering if controlling the amps or power to slow it down will also mean the max head will be lower.

 

[gloo]

I use various timers for Security System Design The Altronix 6062 can be setup for 4 different functions and would do a 10 min then off after triggered

http://www.altronix.com/index.php?pid=2&model_num=6062
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006TZEDS/?tag=pfamazon01-20

So using this timer, I can indefinitely run a pump for say 5 min at a time every 20 min? How complicated are these things?

Also Alan, I can't figure out how this thing works? Does it plug into a power source or what? I ready easy to use but it looks complicated ...like some kind of semiconductor chip. Can you direct me to some site that explanis it better. I am at Altronix...I can't make much of it.

 

[Travis_King]

I'll reiterate: reducing the flow either via restricting it or lowering the voltage/ampage are both hard on motors that aren't desing

While I agree that in this case it probably shouldn't be done, I disagree with this point in principle.
Once again, OP, I do not think a speed controller is a good idea here. It will not provide you any real benefits as the first thing to go drastically down when speed is reduced is head, not flow. As these pumps tend to be low head anyway, you will likely waste lots of money for very little reduction in flow.

If a pump system is running far to the right of the BEP on its curve, then providing a flow restriction in the line will help make the pump more efficient and will be easier on the pump and motor alike.

Similarly, using a speed controller is an ideal way of controlling the operation of a pump in varying conditions. By using a speed controller in conjunction with other sensory equipment, one can maintain the pump at its most optimum operating point and add significant life to both pump and motor.

Sure, one can go too far with either of these methods, but properly applied, these are two extremely common ways of controlling flow, optimizing pump efficiency, and balancing systems.

If you were intending to say that perhaps these sump pumps are not intended to be run on variable speed controllers, then that may be true, depending on the manufacturer's recommendations. Likewise, if this pump is already at or to the left of its BEP, then increasing the system head will be hard on the motor and will likely decrease the pump's useful life.

 

[DaveC426913]

If you were intending to say that perhaps these sump pumps are not intended to be run on variable speed controllers, then that may be true, depending on the manufacturer's recommendations.

That is exactly what I'm saying, yes. I am not stating it as fact, though. I'm stating it as a general caution. Verify with the manufacturer whether any given piece of equipment will operate with reduced wattage.But you do make an excellent point, that varying the pump speed will have a dramatic and deleterious effect on lift.

 

[Travis_King]

I'll add a few more points here:

1) If you are hearing vibrations throughout the house, I would seriously suspect vibrations as a result of the connections between the pipes and the floor joists. If you can find a way to support your sump piping from the foundation (with, perhaps, insulating supports) I think that will be drastically reduced.

2) If you have to open a valve before the venturi will run (i.e. it is not a fully automatic backup) then be sure to close that valve on the discharge when it is not in operation. If there isn't one already, install a check valve in the line.

3) Leave the battery backup, it's an important part of your system given your high water table. It gives you time to realize there's an issue and turn on your venturi if your main sump dies.

4) Diaphragm pumps are nice, but they are rarely quiet. I don't have much experience with electric diaphragm pumps. The air ones are way too loud. I would suspect that an electric centrifugal pump is much quieter than a diaphragm pump. If you're still in the mood to look around for other solutions. You could try finding a peristaltic pump that fits your flow rate (this is also a positive displacement pump). Positive displacement pumps are not kinetic energy pumps like the centrifugal ones, they move water up by displacing volume. This is both good and bad. It is good because if you find one that will pump at your desired flowrate, you don't have to worry about it reaching the destination, it is moved along by the volume of water behind it, so as long as there is water, it will keep moving. This is dangerous, however, because if for some reason your pipes get clogged or a valve is closed, it will continue to pump and build pressure until the pipe bursts or pump ruptures, both very expensive problems. It's up to you if you'd like to search around for these, but I wouldn't recommend it.

5) Don't use a timer. It is a bad idea for a person with your water table. I don't even know if building codes allow it. The only way to increase the time between pump cycles without risking flooding is to increase the size of the sump, or increase the level at which the main sump turns on.

 

[gloo]

I'll add a few more points here:

1) If you are hearing vibrations throughout the house, I would seriously suspect vibrations as a result of the connections between the pipes and the floor joists. If you can find a way to support your sump piping from the foundation (with, perhaps, insulating supports) I think that will be drastically reduced.

2) If you have to open a valve before the venturi will run (i.e. it is not a fully automatic backup) then be sure to close that valve on the discharge when it is not in operation. If there isn't one already, install a check valve in the line.

3) Leave the battery backup, it's an important part of your system given your high water table. It gives you time to realize there's an issue and turn on your venturi if your main sump dies.

4) Diaphragm pumps are nice, but they are rarely quiet. I don't have much experience with electric diaphragm pumps. The air ones are way too loud. I would suspect that an electric centrifugal pump is much quieter than a diaphragm pump. If you're still in the mood to look around for other solutions. You could try finding a peristaltic pump that fits your flow rate (this is also a positive displacement pump). Positive displacement pumps are not kinetic energy pumps like the centrifugal ones, they move water up by displacing volume. This is both good and bad. It is good because if you find one that will pump at your desired flowrate, you don't have to worry about it reaching the destination, it is moved along by the volume of water behind it, so as long as there is water, it will keep moving. This is dangerous, however, because if for some reason your pipes get clogged or a valve is closed, it will continue to pump and build pressure until the pipe bursts or pump ruptures, both very expensive problems. It's up to you if you'd like to search around for these, but I wouldn't recommend it.

5) Don't use a timer. It is a bad idea for a person with your water table. I don't even know if building codes allow it. The only way to increase the time between pump cycles without risking flooding is to increase the size of the sump, or increase the level at which the main sump turns on.

Yes, after all that Travis... I think my conclusion is to align my solution to yours.

1. Getting a quiet and long lasting sump pump
2. Getting a Campbell M quiet check valve - reading how people don't hear any slamming noises when sump stops and (water hammer effect0
3. Keeping the back up battery power sump pump
4. keeping the water pressure sump pump off unless I am going away on vacation
5. Look to install back up generator in the house that auto switches to nat gas for powering house. I don't think this is necessary since i have water pressured sump pump.

Travis, thank you for all the input and thought process.

Dave, same to you for all your consideration and time

G

 

[gloo]

One more question/ piece of advice from whoever can give it. My battery back up sump pump don't work well. The pump just doesn't pump much water and the charge seems to disappear and needs charging after a 30 second run. I just installled this marine battery in late 2011 and really only been used once or twice.

How long do these things last? The plumber said 5 to 7 years! It's been barely 3 years?? Is it for sure the battery?

g

 

[OmCheeto]

One more question/ piece of advice from whoever can give it. My battery back up sump pump don't work well. The pump just doesn't pump much water and the charge seems to disappear and needs charging after a 30 second run. I just installled this marine battery in late 2011 and really only been used once or twice.

How long do these things last? The plumber said 5 to 7 years! It's been barely 3 years?? Is it for sure the battery?

g

Can you show us the circuit diagram for the battery backup system? A well maintained deep cycle battery can last 20 years. Poorly maintained, they can last less than a year.

 

[Danger]

Can you show us the circuit diagram for the battery backup system?

Even if it's a good design, it might be worth doing a physical check for flaws that don't conform to the blueprints and cause parasitic loss. This happens sometimes in cars or whatnot due to little things like "leaky" headlight switches or power window circuits that let current pass through at a small enough magnitude that it doesn't actually do anything other than drain the battery over time.
It could be the specific battery model, though. The manual for my Jazzy Jet 3 power chair says that if it isn't in regular use the batteries should be charged at least once a week for 12—14 hours (but not more than 20). They are deep-cycle units that the manual also says can be replaced by marine or RV ones with no mention of altering the charging instructions in that case.

 

[gloo]

Can you show us the circuit diagram for the battery backup system? A well maintained deep cycle battery can last 20 years. Poorly maintained, they can last less than a year.

I took a video of the set up. I hope you can decipher or see what is going on with this. If you need more details I can go get it for you.

But it most likely is the battery correct?

 

[Danger]

But it most likely is the battery correct?

There really isn't enough information to determine that. Although a video might not provide anything useful, it certainly can't hurt to bring it out.

 

[DaveC426913]

Batteries and circuits tend not to play well with water.

If any of it is under water, of even on a wet surface, I'd look for crimped wires and poorly insulated joins where current can leak out of the system.

Let me tell you about the wiring in the bilge of my boat...

 

[OmCheeto]

I took a video of the set up. I hope you can decipher or see what is going on with this. If you need more details I can go get it for you.

But it most likely is the battery correct?

When you post the video, you should also provide us with the make and model of your battery. Otherwise, we will probably end up with another 7 pages of guessing what's wrong.

ps. Someone else had a leaky basement a while back. Though it wasn't as bad as yours. I told him to buy a mop.

 

[Danger]

Let me tell you about the wiring in the bilge of my boat...

oo)
Please... no! I've heard enough horror stories out of you. After that thing about the goat and the Cheez Whiz, I'm not listening to any more.

 

[gloo]

Sorry, I forgot the video link:



The battery is a Liberty (sump pump manufacturer) and is 12Volt model 441.

http://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/SubCategory/Product/?p=21&s=23&c=14

 

[OmCheeto]

Sorry, I forgot the video link:



The battery is a Liberty (sump pump manufacturer) and is 12Volt model 441.

http://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/SubCategory/Product/?p=21&s=23&c=14

It looks like a very sophisticated system. Unfortunately, you haven't told us what make and model battery you have. The literature says the system comes without a battery.

 

[Danger]

The literature says the system comes without a battery.

That could explain a lot, if he didn't "purpose-match" it to the pump. (In fact, I was just a bit puzzled about it being a deep-cycle unit in the first place, but I figured that the manufacturer had supplied it. Those are usually meant for sustained heavy medium to heavy output, not rare applications of power. I would expect a Lion pack such as from a cordless lawnmower would be more appropriate.)

 

[OmCheeto]

That could explain a lot, if he didn't "purpose-match" it to the pump. (In fact, I was just a bit puzzled about it being a deep-cycle unit in the first place, but I figured that the manufacturer had supplied it. Those are usually meant for sustained heavy medium to heavy output, not rare applications of power. I would expect a Lion pack such as from a cordless lawnmower would be more appropriate.)

The system is priced around $300. A 100 ah lead acid battery is about $90. An equivalent lithium ion battery is in the $600 - $900 range.
The charging system he has is very sophisticated, and is designed for a very specific type of battery.

It's actually the very first thing they list on page one:

http://www.libertypumps.com/Data/InstallationManual/4414000BforWeb.pdf

In an emergency (such as an extended power outage) which depletes the system deep cycle battery, your automobile battery may be temporarily substituted. Be sure to replace the system deep cycle battery as soon as possible. Use of an automobile battery instead of a deep cycle battery in this system will significantly reduce system total performance. Automobile batteries are not designed for this type of application and will be quickly ruined by the repeated charge/discharge cycling. Do not use GEL-type batteries or maintenance-free batteries with this charger. GEL-type batteries require a lower voltage than the charger is designed for; they may overcharge. Maintenance-free (sealed) batteries require a higher voltage and may never reach full charge.

 

[Danger]

Okay... thanks, Om. That clarifies things (but that price differential blows my mind). If the manual specifies deep-cycle, then that's obviously the proper way to go. I retract my speculations.

 

[RonL]

Okay... thanks, Om. That clarifies things (but that price differential blows my mind). If the manual specifies deep-cycle, then that's obviously the proper way to go. I retract my speculations.

IIRC the price to change out the battery pack in the Tesla car is around 50,000 US dollars

 

[gloo]

The system is priced around $300. A 100 ah lead acid battery is about $90. An equivalent lithium ion battery is in the $600 - $900 range.
The charging system he has is very sophisticated, and is designed for a very specific type of battery.

It's actually the very first thing they list on page one:

Oh wow! Thanks OmCheeto! So... questions:

1. What do you think it would cost to put the appropriate battery? I think that plumber put some kind of "marine" battery in.

2. Where would or should I buy this battery (I live in Toronto)

3. Is it hard to install?

4. If i put in the proper battery...how long should this thing last??

Thx

 

[OmCheeto]

Oh wow! Thanks OmCheeto! So... questions:

1. What do you think it would cost to put the appropriate battery?

$90 USD or $102.60 Canadian, at todays exchange rate.

I think that plumber put some kind of "marine" battery in.

Guessing won't solve the problem. There are at least 3 different types of "marine" batteries. You want a "deep cycle marine" battery.

2. Where would or should I buy this battery (I live in Toronto)

Ask DaveC426913. He lives in Toronto. I live about 3400 km to your west, and don't know where your nearest battery store is.

3. Is it hard to install?

No, but you can kill or injure yourself if you do it wrong. Have you never changed the battery in your car before? It's only a tad more complicated than changing the batteries in a flashlight.

4. If i put in the proper battery...how long should this thing last??

Thx

Between 3 and 20 years.
Batteries are like people. Some don't live long, while others live a very long time. Overworking a battery, especially lead acid, will shorten their lifespan. And so will not keeping them adequately charged.

 

[gloo]

$90 USD or $102.60 Canadian, at todays exchange rate.

Guessing won't solve the problem. There are at least 3 different types of "marine" batteries. You want a "deep cycle marine" battery.

Ask DaveC426913. He lives in Toronto. I live about 3400 km to your west, and don't know where your nearest battery store is.

No, but you can kill or injure yourself if you do it wrong. Have you never changed the battery in your car before? It's only a tad more complicated than changing the batteries in a flashlight.

Between 3 and 20 years.
Batteries are like people. Some don't live long, while others live a very long time. Overworking a battery, especially lead acid, will shorten their lifespan. And so will not keeping them adequately charged.

you certainly know your stuff OmCheeto.

I have not changed a battery but have unhooked the positive negative wires to clean some acid gunk on the connectors in my car.

3 and 20 years eh? So mine was the 3 year one then? It has only been used twice in three years. Once during the Toronto ice storm in which it drained after 6 or 7 hours (as per spec); and once for about 20 min. Other than that, i don't think it was used (battery or the back up battery pump). So how do i stop if from being over worked?? Should i not let it charge in summer for hot dry stretches?

 

[RonL]

you certainly know your stuff OmCheeto.

I have not changed a battery but have unhooked the positive negative wires to clean some acid gunk on the connectors in my car.

3 and 20 years eh? So mine was the 3 year one then? It has only been used twice in three years. Once during the Toronto ice storm in which it drained after 6 or 7 hours (as per spec); and once for about 20 min. Other than that, i don't think it was used (battery or the back up battery pump). So how do i stop if from being over worked?? Should i not let it charge in summer for hot dry stretches?

It would be good to use the battery system two or three times a year (just enough to drop charge to around 70 or 80 percent, or DOC, "depth of charge") this is the phrase "cycling a battery".
Exercising a battery is the same principal as exercising our physical bodies.;)

Edit...that should be DoD " Depth of Discharge"

 

[Danger]

I live about 3400 km to your west

So... what, somewhere between Brooks and Calgary? I didn't know that there were people there... :p

 

[RonL]

So... what, somewhere between Brooks and Calgary? I didn't know that there were people there... :p

They are all dressed like boats:D

 

[Danger]

They are all dressed like boats:D

Prairie schooners...?

 

[OmCheeto]

It would be good to use the battery system two or three times a year (just enough to drop charge to around 70 or 80 percent, or DOC, "depth of charge") this is the phrase "cycling a battery".
Exercising a battery is the same principal as exercising our physical bodies.;)

Edit...that should be DoD " Depth of Discharge"

Agreed.

One peculiar thing about the charging system, is that it claims to take 100 hours to charge a 100 ah battery. And I don't see anything in the literature about an equalizing charge. To my knowledge, batteries don't "gas" at below 14.4 vdc. If the system never forces the battery to gas, then stratification is going to occur. This will also degrade the life of a battery.

I would recommend rocking the battery back and forth for a couple of minutes, about every 6 months. This might solve the problem. Just make sure the caps are on tight. Battery acid will eat your eyeballs.

ps. I wonder if Wagon Master killed himself with his battery project. He hasn't been back since. DIY science projects can be deadly.

 

[Danger]

I wonder if Wagon Master killed himself with his battery project. He hasn't been back since. DIY science projects can be deadly.

Hmmm... possibly.
Re-reading that thread, I just can't believe that I didn't make a smart-ass response to his statement that "My father has a solar system..." I assume that Jupiter is the guest house...?

 

[RonL]

Agreed.

One peculiar thing about the charging system, is that it claims to take 100 hours to charge a 100 ah battery. And I don't see anything in the literature about an equalizing charge. To my knowledge, batteries don't "gas" at below 14.4 vdc. If the system never forces the battery to gas, then stratification is going to occur. This will also degrade the life of a battery.

I would recommend rocking the battery back and forth for a couple of minutes, about every 6 months. This might solve the problem. Just make sure the caps are on tight. Battery acid will eat your eyeballs.

ps. I wonder if Wagon Master killed himself with his battery project. He hasn't been back since. DIY science projects can be deadly.

I'm glad you linked to the battery project thread (your first post...WOW I like)
Batteries and compressed air...two things I'm passionate about and now have to really really hold my thoughts,...lest I be banned:)

 

[Danger]

Batteries and compressed air...two things I'm passionate about and now have to really really hold my thoughts,...lest I be banned:)

Oh, go ahead. A little flatulence never hurt anyone... :D

 

[RonL]

Oh, go ahead. A little flatulence never hurt anyone... :D

Your my red flag indicator, don't do what Danger does, try to stay at least 1" shy of the line:)

 

[Danger]

Your my red flag indicator, don't do what Danger does, try to stay at least 1" shy of the line:)

Wise words, my son.

 

[OmCheeto]

Oh, go ahead. A little flatulence never hurt anyone... :D

That was very much what I said in my very first thread!

I suppose, it was all Woolies fault, that I've stuck around this long.