Random Walk of KMnO4 in Water: Why Do We Observe Non-Probabilistic Behavior?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the random walk behavior of KMnO4 molecules in water, specifically addressing the discrepancy between observed non-probabilistic behavior and theoretical probabilistic models. The probability of a single KMnO4 molecule taking r steps in an unbiased random walk is calculated using the binomial coefficient NCr and the formula (1/2)^N. However, as the number of molecules approaches Avogadro's number, the probability of all molecules reaching the beaker's ends becomes less likely than oscillation within the solution. The conversation highlights the importance of considering concentration gradients and boundary effects in statistical mechanics.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of random walk theory in statistical mechanics
  • Familiarity with binomial coefficients and probability calculations
  • Knowledge of concentration gradients and their effects on diffusion
  • Awareness of boundary effects in finite systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the principles of diffusion and concentration gradients in solutions
  • Explore advanced topics in statistical mechanics, focusing on random walks
  • Investigate the implications of boundary effects in finite systems
  • Learn about the mathematical modeling of molecular distributions in statistical mechanics
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for physicists, chemists, and students studying statistical mechanics, particularly those interested in molecular diffusion and random walk phenomena.

Jigyasa
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
I had a question regarding the random walk problem in statistical mechanics. If I drop, say, one molecule of KMnO4 in a beaker of water, what we generally observe (spread of KMnO4 to the ends of the beaker) is different from what we should get from probabilistic assumptions. I must be going wrong somewhere in what I'm thinking but I can't point my finger at it.If I consider one molecule of KMnO4 , then the probability of it taking r steps to the right (or left), out of a total of N steps, is NCr *(1/2)^N (assuming unbiased random walk). For Avogadro's number of molecules, this probability is now raised to the power of Avogadro's number. This is maximum if r = N/2. Physically this means that the probability of the whole solution becoming coloured (KMnO4 traveling to the far ends ) is less than the probability of only a part of the solution becoming coloured (because if KMnO4 moves a total of10 steps, the probability of it moving 5 steps to the right and 5 steps to the left is maximum. In a sense, it oscillating is more probable ) But we almost always see that the whole solution turns purple in due course of time.Is it that the need to overcome concentration gradient dominates so KMNo4 has to reach the ends? If yes, then why do we use probabilities in statistical mechanics when systems may or may not be governed by probabilistic assumptions?

Or maybe I'm wrong in assuming this to be an unbiased random walk

Please help.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Jigyasa said:
For Avogadro's number of molecules, this probability is now raised to the power of Avogadro's number.
It is not clear what you are trying to do here. What you are actually computing is the probability of all molecules ending up at the same place, r steps away. This would typically not be what you want. What you would typically want is the distribution of the molecules, which will be the same as that of a single molecule.
 
If I only consider a single molecule, even then the probability of the molecule reaching the far ends of the beaker is coming out to be less than the probability of it oscillating somewhere in between (because NCr is max for r = N/2, this will always be the case assuming unbiased random walk of KMNO4)
 
Obviously. However, the limiting case as N becomes large is an even distribution.

Unless your beaker is infinite, you also cannot disregard boundary effects.
 

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
10K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K