Rather than reinvent the wheel

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In summary, the conversation involves a designer tasked with creating a 12VDC to 24VAC 300 Watt converter for a consumer quality product related to solar panels. The designer is looking for professional quality schematics and suggests using an off-the-shelf 12VDC to 120VAC inverter and a 120VAC-to-24VAC transformer as a potential alternative. The cost of using components from China is discussed, and the designer expresses a preference for designing from basic components. There is also a mention of the need for a high current step-up inductor or transformer to handle the required input current. The conversation then shifts to discussing various schematic links and the option of contacting companies that make these types of converters to modify
  • #1
Phrak
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I'm tasked with designing a 12 VDC (from lead storage batteries) to 24 VAC (peak to peak, sinusoidal, and unregulated) 300 Watt converter. This will be a consumer quality product--something to do with solar panels.

Rather than completely reinvent the wheel, I thought I could find something close online. I've only come up with goofy amature designs. One block might be a 12V to -12V inverter. I haven't found a low voltage efficient power converter for this yet. Is there anywhere I can go for professional quality schematics for this?
 
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  • #2
I'll do a little searching, but one thing that comes to mind is to use an off-the-shelf 12VDC to 120VAC inverter (common, cheap, UL approved), and a 120VAC-to-24VAC transformer (also common, cheap, UL approved). If we don't find a good pre-existing inverter to 24VAC, then this might be a good alternative. Especially if you can come up with some use for 120VAC in the system as well...
 
  • #3
berkeman said:
I'll do a little searching, but one thing that comes to mind is to use an off-the-shelf 12VDC to 120VAC inverter (common, cheap, UL approved), and a 120VAC-to-24VAC transformer (also common, cheap, UL approved). If we don't find a good pre-existing inverter to 24VAC, then this might be a good alternative. Especially if you can come up with some use for 120VAC in the system as well...

That's an idea, but this gets complicated in terms of cost. This is a consumer grade product that would probably get knocked-off in China in the thousands. My customer would be asking his costomer to gather parts made in China, then ship them back to China for reassembly, then back here to end users. On top, a 300 Watt, 60 Hz transformer is a pretty large chunk of iron. Avoiding low frequency conversion such as 60 Hz conversion is a plus if your an engineer, but the bottom line is really cost engineering. They should cost my customer's customer about 20 dollars a unit or so.

All these practical matters is not something I like to get mixed up with. My job is to know what my customer wants, not what he thinks he wants, and deliver it. In this case I need to design from basic components, up--I need to deliver some useful scribbles on paper.
 
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  • #4
300 watts @ 12 v = 25 amps of max input current to handle.

That would require a high current step-up inductor or a high frequency magnetic core transformer to step-up the voltage driven by a high current oscillator (20-40 KHz).

Are you considering building a test prototype to see if it works?
 
  • #5
berkeman said:
I'll do a little searching, but one thing that comes to mind is to use an off-the-shelf 12VDC to 120VAC inverter (common, cheap, UL approved), and a 120VAC-to-24VAC transformer (also common, cheap, UL approved). If we don't find a good pre-existing inverter to 24VAC, then this might be a good alternative. Especially if you can come up with some use for 120VAC in the system as well...

Berkeman has the right idea. Just go from one of these designs and modify for 24VAC output. Also have to size the components right for the power out, etc. Here are a couple of schematic links: (No warranty, real or implied. Your mileage may vary, etc.)

http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/inverter.asp"

http://www.free-electronic-circuits.com/circuits/12-to-120-volt-inverter.html"

Haven't examined these closely, but they are certainly modified sine inverters.

Here's a link to what seems to be a pretty good design overview with references: http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-042507-092653/unrestricted/MQP_D_1_2.pdf"

One other option, and for commercial purposes, probably the best one, is to simply contact the companies who make these things and have them do a 24VAC model for you. It will be a very simple mod for them to make to an existing, proven design. Good luck!
 
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  • #6
waht said:
300 watts @ 12 v = 25 amps of max input current to handle.

That would require a high current step-up inductor or a high frequency magnetic core transformer to step-up the voltage driven by a high current oscillator (20-40 KHz).

Are you considering building a test prototype to see if it works?

First of all, I got the output wrong. I was just deciding that my customer was nuts and wanted a 24 V rms output rather than what he asked for. Now he tells me I misunderstood. He does want 24 VAC.


For a non-ground referenced output, I was thinking of developing 37 VDC with a buck or boost regulator, then following with a pulse width modulator to chop alternately 0 volts and 37 volts into an inductor in series with the load (at 20 to 40 KHz as you say).
 
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  • #7
rolerbe said:
One other option, and for commercial purposes, probably the best one, is to simply contact the companies who make these things and have them do a 24VAC model for you. It will be a very simple mod for them to make to an existing, proven design. Good luck!

I'm a company that designs process control and power conversion electronics. I get paid to design.
 
  • #8
Phrak said:
I'm a company that designs process control and power conversion electronics. I get paid to design.

:biggrin:
 

1. What does the phrase "rather than reinvent the wheel" mean?

The phrase "rather than reinvent the wheel" means to use or adopt an existing solution or approach instead of creating a new one. It suggests that it is more efficient to build upon something that already exists rather than starting from scratch.

2. Why is it important to not reinvent the wheel?

Not reinventing the wheel can save time, resources, and effort. It allows for building upon existing knowledge and solutions, leading to more efficient and effective outcomes. It also promotes collaboration and avoids duplicating efforts.

3. When should you consider not reinventing the wheel?

You should consider not reinventing the wheel when there is already a well-established solution or approach that meets your needs. This is particularly true in fields such as science and technology, where there is a vast amount of existing knowledge and resources.

4. What are the potential drawbacks of not reinventing the wheel?

One potential drawback is that the existing solution may not fully meet your specific needs or may not be adaptable to your unique situation. Additionally, relying too heavily on existing solutions may hinder innovation and limit potential advancements.

5. How can you build upon existing solutions without reinventing the wheel?

Building upon existing solutions involves understanding and analyzing the existing solution to determine how it can be improved or adapted to fit your needs. This may involve making small modifications or combining multiple solutions to create a more comprehensive one. Collaboration and communication with others who have expertise in the field can also help in building upon existing solutions without reinventing the wheel.

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