Ratio of volumes in a vertical cylinder with a piston

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the volumes in a vertical cylinder with a piston, particularly focusing on the forces acting on the piston and the implications of gas behavior under changing temperatures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the forces acting on the piston and the equilibrium conditions before and after a temperature change. There are attempts to relate pressures and volumes through equations involving gas laws. Some participants question the definitions of variables used in the equations.

Discussion Status

Participants have engaged in a productive dialogue, with some providing hints and clarifications that have led to a better understanding of the problem. There is acknowledgment of progress made by one participant in deriving expressions for the volumes.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of the need to define notation clearly, indicating that some variables were initially ambiguous. The problem involves specific constraints related to the behavior of gases and the setup of the cylinder and piston system.

danut
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Homework Statement
A vertical cylinder closed at both ends is separated into two compartments by a movable piston of negligible volume. In the two compartments there are equal masses of the same ideal gas, at the same temperature T₁. At equilibrium, the ratio of the volumes of the two compartments is k = 3.
Relevant Equations
What will be the ratio of the two volumes, if the temperature rises to 4T₁/3?
First, I thought of the forces which are acting upon the piston.
F1 + G = F2, where F1 = p1 * S and F2 = p2 * S
p1 + mg/S = p2

I figured that before and after the gas' temperature rises, the piston has to be at equilibrium, so p2 - p1 = p2' - p1'.

p1V1 = niu * R * T1
p2V2 = niu * R * T1 => p1V1 = p2V2, but V1/V2 = k = 3. so p1/p2 = 1/3, so p2 = 3p1.

Nothing that I think of adds up to anything, the correct answer is: sqrt(2) + 1.
 
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danut said:
First, I thought of the forces which are acting upon the piston.
F1 + G = F2, where F1 = p1 * S and F2 = p2 * S
p1 + mg/S = p2
We can probably guess what G and S represent, but you should always define your notation.

danut said:
I figured that before and after the gas' temperature rises, the piston has to be at equilibrium, so p2 - p1 = p2' - p1'.
OK.

Hint: Let ##V_0## be the total volume of the cylinder. Can you express ##V_1## in terms of ##V_0## and ##k##? Likewise for ##V_2##.
 
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TSny said:
We can probably guess what G and S represent, but you should always define your notation.
I apologize and thank you, will do that from now on!!
So V1 = V0*k/(k+1) and V2 = V0/(k+1).

I wrote the equation p2 - p1 = p2' - p1' in terms of ν, R, T and the corresponding volumes and finally got the correct answer!! Thank you so much, I've struggled with this problem for the longest time.
 
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Great! Good work.
 
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