Rebound Height vs Air Pressure: A Puzzling Relationship

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between rebound height and air pressure in basketballs, specifically why a graph of rebound height versus air pressure does not pass through the origin. Participants explore the nature of this relationship, considering factors such as the coefficient of restitution (COR) and the behavior of the basketball at different pressure levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the graph of rebound height versus air pressure does not have a line of best fit through the origin, suggesting a comparison to a mass-spring system.
  • Another participant argues that the maximum rebound height is limited by the height from which the ball is dropped, implying that rebound height cannot exceed this limit regardless of air pressure.
  • A participant seeks clarification on why air pressure is not directly proportional to rebound height, providing examples of rebound heights at different pressures.
  • Some participants suggest that the relationship may not be linear, proposing that there could be thresholds below which the rebound height is zero and that the rebound height may increase rapidly over a small range of pressures before flattening out.
  • There is a mention of a potential logarithmic fit to the data, with uncertainty expressed about the exact shape of the relationship.
  • One participant shares personal experience, suggesting that even slight decreases in air pressure can significantly affect a ball's performance, indicating a non-linear relationship.
  • Another participant notes a lack of experimental data below certain pressure levels, suggesting that further investigation could be beneficial.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the relationship between air pressure and rebound height, with no consensus reached on whether it is linear or follows a different pattern. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of this relationship.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in available data, particularly below certain pressure thresholds, and the dependence on specific definitions and assumptions regarding rebound height and air pressure.

innocentasker
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OP tried to delete his post and the thread title, but they have been restored by the Mentors
TL;DR
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Hi all
I have a very quick question
I'm trying to understand why a graph of Rebound height (m) vs Air Pressure (x axis) doesn't have a line of best fit which goes through the origin.
I understand a basketball's bounce can be compared to the compression of a mass-spring system but then why doesn't it have a directly proportional relationship between its air pressure and rebound height?
 
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Why should it? The maximum rebound height is the height it was dropped from, so it can't reboubd beyond that however high the pressure.
 
My apologies i should've framed my question better...i understand that it can't rebound beyond it's drop height but until that height...could you help me understand why air pressure is not directly proportional to the rebound height?
For example..
a 3 psi ball may bounce to 1.5m
And the same ball at 3.5 psi may bounce to 1.8m
But the same ball at 4 psi may bounce to 2.1m

Does it have anything to do with the COR of the ball?
Thanks in advance
 
innocentasker said:
I'm trying to understand why a graph of Rebound height (m) vs Air Pressure (x axis) doesn't have a line of best fit which goes through the origin.
Welcome to PF. :smile:

Can you post a link to the graph you are referring to? Also, I would think the rebound height would be zero when you get down below about 0.5psi or so -- that's a pretty flat basketball...

1643124498616.png

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/flat-basketball-isolated-gm182481240-11881459
 
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innocentasker said:
could you help me understand why air pressure is not directly proportional to the rebound height?
Why should it be linear? You'd expect the rebound to be zero until it reaches a minimum threshold. Then, I'd expect it to increase quickly over some relatively small range of pressure until it reaches the next threshold, where it is bouncing normally. I'm not sure about the curve here and how close to linear that would be. Then, the curve would flatten out and any further increase would be minimal.

There's no reason for it to be linear.
 
But you don't have any data below 6psi? I'm pretty sure it will drop like a stone and intersect the x-axis before the origin...
 
is this what you mean? i think its a logarithmic fit but i don't understand why
1643126380865.png

PeroK said:
Why should it be linear? You'd expect the rebound to be zero until it reaches a minimum threshold. Then, I'd expect it to increase quickly over some relatively small range of pressure until it reaches the next threshold, where it is bouncing normally. I'm not sure about the curve here and how close to linear that would be. Then, the curve would flatten out and any further increase would be minimal.

There's no reason for it to be linear.
 
innocentasker said:
is this what you mean? i think its a logarithmic fit but i don't understand whyView attachment 296014
I wouldn't like to guess the shape, but I imagine the height would drop off far more quickly than that.

Why? Exprience of playing football (soccer) as a child. It only took the ball to lose a bit of air pressure for the game to be ruined. A half-inflated ball was no use. It would just flop around.

You youngsters these days probably spent your childhood sitting indoors playing computer soccer where the ball never goes flat! :smile:
 
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  • #10
I did a Google search on basketball rebound height vs pressure and got lots of hits. But I didn't find any experiments that went below about 5-6psi. Maybe you will be the first to plot that data! :smile:
 
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  • #11
innocentasker said:
Summary:: -

Hi all
I have a very quick question
I'm trying to understand why a graph of Rebound height (m) vs Air Pressure (x axis) doesn't have a line of best fit which goes through the origin.
I understand a basketball's bounce can be compared to the compression of a mass-spring system but then why doesn't it have a directly proportional relationship between its air pressure and rebound height?
Please do not try to delete your OP and the thread title (and your posts!) -- that is usually a sign that a student is trying to cheat on their homework. Your OP and thread title have been restored, and this thread is now locked.
 
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