Recently discovered ZZ diboson

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction of Z bosons, particularly in the context of their detection as a ZZ diboson. Participants explore the nature of these interactions, how they differ from photon interactions, and the implications of gauge theory in understanding these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express curiosity about the interaction of two Z bosons and question why they interact differently than two photons.
  • One participant references a measurement related to ZZ diboson production and discusses the challenges in detecting these events, particularly when both Z bosons decay into similar particles.
  • There is a clarification that it is incorrect to say Z bosons interact with themselves, but they can interact with W bosons, which is attributed to the non-commutative nature of the electroweak gauge group structure.
  • Another participant argues that while Z bosons do not self-interact, photons can interact with W bosons, noting similarities in their interactions with an additional factor in the ZWW coupling.
  • A later reply emphasizes the distinction between Z/W interactions and the differences in the U(1) groups involved in electroweak theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the nature of Z and W boson interactions but express differing views on the specifics of these interactions and the implications of gauge theory. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nuances of these interactions.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the interactions and the definitions of the gauge groups involved, which are not fully explored.

Dmitry67
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I know about fermions forming pairs, but I had never heard about the bosons doing it.

Why 2 Z bosons interact (contrary to 2 photons)?
How do we know that we detected 1 ZZ boson, not 2 independent interactions with single Z bosons?
 
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I presume you are meaning something related to this measurement?

http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/archive_2008/today08-08-21.html

Nobody has claimed that di-boson production implies a bound state. What is happening is illustrated by the feynman diagram here:

http://www.pd.infn.it/~dorigo/zzdecay.jpg

So you see, the initial fermion line (from quark anti-quark annihilation) radiates two Z bosons, which each in turn decay into whatever Zs can decay into. If each Z decays into the same thing (i.e. you get 4 electrons, 4 muons or 4 quarks), they are difficult to untangle. However, if you look for events where one Z decays to quarks, and the other decays to leptons (i.e. electron or muons, as taus look rather like quark jets), then you can find these events as quark jets and leptons are, generically speaking, detected in different subdetectors of an experiment. I have not mentioned neutrinos as you can't detect these at all (in a colliding HEP experiment at least)...

It is wrong to say that the Z bosons interact with themselves. The Z can, however, interact with the W+ and W-. As to why these gauge bosons can interact and the photon can't is a very interesting one. It boils down to the gauge structure of the underlying theory. The U(1) group of electromagnetism is an abelian group (meaning the generator - the fundamental description of the group - commute, i.e. G(1)G(2) = G(2)G(1)). However, in SU(2) x U(1), the electroweak group structure, the generators no longer commute (i.e. G(1)G(2) != G(2)G(1)). The non-commutation implies self interaction terms are allowed.
 
Thank you for the good explanation!
 
bomanfishwow said:
...

It is wrong to say that the Z bosons interact with themselves. The Z can, however, interact with the W+ and W-. As to why these gauge bosons can interact and the photon can't is a very interesting one. It boils down to the gauge structure of the underlying theory. The U(1) group of electromagnetism is an abelian group (meaning the generator - the fundamental description of the group - commute, i.e. G(1)G(2) = G(2)G(1)). However, in SU(2) x U(1), the electroweak group structure, the generators no longer commute (i.e. G(1)G(2) != G(2)G(1)). The non-commutation implies self interaction terms are allowed.

Actually, the photon can interact with the W+ and W- just like the Z can. The interaction is almost identical, except that the ZWW coupling has an extra factor of [tex]\cot\theta_w[/tex]. Recall that in the electroweak theory, the U(1) of electromagnetism is a subgroup of the full SU(2) x U(1).
 
daschaich said:
Actually, the photon can interact with the W+ and W- just like the Z can. The interaction is almost identical, except that the ZWW coupling has an extra factor of [tex]\cot\theta_w[/tex]. Recall that in the electroweak theory, the U(1) of electromagnetism is a subgroup of the full SU(2) x U(1).

Yes indeed, I was talking explicitly about Z/W interaction terms - I didn't want to get into the fact the U(1)s are different in each case!
 

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