Redshift Effect on Absorption/Emission Lines

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the effects of redshift on the width of spectral emission and absorption lines, exploring both cosmological and Doppler redshift. Participants examine the mechanisms that may influence line broadening and the implications of different theoretical perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the width of spectral lines is not stretched due to redshift, as the width is primarily determined by the random motions of individual emitters, leading to Doppler broadening.
  • Others propose that the spectral lines must be broadened by the same amount as the wavelength is lengthened due to redshift, suggesting a direct relationship between redshift and line width.
  • A participant introduces the variable mass theory, positing that redshifts are observed because we see objects as they were when the light left them, implying a connection between the age and mass of distant objects and their observed redshift.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism towards the variable mass theory, labeling it as "ridiculous."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether redshift affects the width of spectral lines. There is no consensus, as some support the idea of direct broadening due to redshift, while others emphasize the role of Doppler broadening and question the variable mass theory.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mechanisms of broadening, including thermal and turbulent motions, but do not reach a resolution on the implications of redshift on line width. The discussion includes speculative theories that are not universally accepted.

Drakkith
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Is the width of spectral emission/absorption lines stretched in either cosmological or doppler redshift?
 
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Generally speaking, no.

Let's take a gas cloud as an example. The width of the line is determined by the random motions of the individual emitters. The whole gas cloud may be moving away from you. However, some emitters are moving slightly faster away from you and some are moving slightly slower away from you. This is because of the velocity dispersion (the spread in velocities around the mean motion of the cloud).

The result is that, even after accounting for the redshift, not all emitters emit at the same wavelength, leading to a spread in the range of wavelengths that constitute the line. This phenomenon is called "Doppler broadening."

In summary, the overall motion of the cloud towards or away from you leads to an overall shift in the location of the central peak of the spectral line. The spread in velocities present due to the random thermal motions of the gas particles (which depends on temperature) determines the width of the line.

Thermal broadening is just one mechanism of broadening. Turbulent motions within the gas cloud can do it too.
 
Last edited:
Understood. Thanks Cepheid!
 
Drakkith said:
Is the width of spectral emission/absorption lines stretched in either cosmological or doppler redshift?
Well, if you think about it, the lines have to be broadened by the exact same amount as the wavelength is lengthened.

Imagine, for a moment, that some source emits light between 100nm and 101nm. If that source is at a redshift of 1, then the 100nm lower part will be redshifted to 200nm, while the upper wavelength of 101nm will be redshifted to 202nm, changing a 1nm width line to 2nm width.

I don't think that there are any additional effects on top of this that would broaden the lines further (though interaction with matter can do that).
 
Chalnoth said:
Well, if you think about it, the lines have to be broadened by the exact same amount as the wavelength is lengthened.

Imagine, for a moment, that some source emits light between 100nm and 101nm. If that source is at a redshift of 1, then the 100nm lower part will be redshifted to 200nm, while the upper wavelength of 101nm will be redshifted to 202nm, changing a 1nm width line to 2nm width.

I don't think that there are any additional effects on top of this that would broaden the lines further (though interaction with matter can do that).

Yeah I missed that completely. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
If the Variable or any variable mass theory is correct...when atoms are first formed in a particular galaxy, they at first radiate weak, high redshift photons. The redshift would then decrease with time as it evolves.Why do we see redshifts almost everywhere we look? According to variable mass theory, we see redshifts because we see objects as they were when the light left them. If you gaze at a tree 30 feet away, you see the tree as it was 30 nanoseconds ago; if you gaze at a galaxy 10,000,000 light years away, you see it as it was 10,000,000 years ago. Even if the distant matter is the same age as our own, we see the galaxy (or the tree!) as it was when it was younger and less massive--and therefore redshifted.
http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/18/435-440.pdf
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0212012
Cosmology and the origin of nuclei J.V. Narlikar
Uzbek Journal of Physics
www.ias.ac.in/jaa/junsep2007/JAA521.pdf
 
Gabrell said:
According to variable mass theory, we see redshifts because we see objects as they were when the light left them.
That's positively ridiculous.
 

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