Regarding pair production and annihilation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the processes of pair production and annihilation, specifically focusing on the theoretical implications of these processes and the conservation of energy and momentum. Participants explore the conditions under which electron-positron pairs can be created and the role of photons and force carriers in these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is theoretically possible to produce an infinite number of electron-positron pairs through repeated annihilation and pair production processes, assuming ideal conditions.
  • Another participant emphasizes that energy must be conserved in these reactions, noting that a photon must have sufficient energy (at least 1.02 MeV) to create an electron-positron pair.
  • A participant clarifies that both energy and momentum conservation are necessary for pair creation, stating that this is not possible in a vacuum but can occur in the presence of a heavy nucleus, which can absorb momentum without significant energy loss.
  • There is a side discussion regarding the definitions of force carriers, with one participant stating that photons are the carriers for electromagnetic force and W/Z bosons for weak force, attributing these definitions to observational findings and theoretical developments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of producing infinite pairs through annihilation and pair production, with some supporting the idea under certain conditions while others focus on the constraints of energy and momentum conservation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these processes.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the importance of energy and momentum conservation in pair production, highlighting that these processes are influenced by the presence of heavy nuclei and specific energy thresholds. The discussion does not resolve the complexities involved in these interactions.

Squall94
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Hi, i have a few questions about these two processes. Now, I am only 16 years old, in my last year of school, so I am not so familiar with physics, if you could put terms simple enough for an average 16 year old to understand, i'd much appreciate it :)
my question is:
If e‾ + e+ → γ + γ and γ → e‾ + e+, wouldn't that mean its theoretically possible to produce almost an infinite amount of positron and electron pairs? What i mean is annihilate a pair, force both gamma rays to undergo pair production, keep one e-/e+ pair, and annihilate the other?

on a side note, why exactly are photons the force carriers for EM force, and W/Z bosons the force carriers for weak force?
 
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Throughout all these reactions, energy must be conserved. In order for pair creation to happen, the photon must have at least enough energy to create the two particles (2 times 0.511 MeV). So you can certainly turn the kinetic energy of the original pair into additional pairs of particles (if it exceeds the mass threshold), in fact, that is the principle behind some calorimeters (detectors that measure energy) used in particle physics, for example at the LHC.
 
Squall94 said:
on a side note, why exactly are photons the force carriers for EM force, and W/Z bosons the force carriers for weak force?
The force carries for the EM force are called "photons", and the force carriers for the weak force are called "W+, W-, Z". The names are just definitions.

If you ask why they have their properties (and why the weak force has 3 particles): Well, first, it is an observation. Based on this observation, the theory of the electroweak force was developed, and with this theory it is possible to calculate the properties of these particles (more properties than the theory needed as input ;)).
 
In order to create an electron-positron pair with a photon, BOTH energy AND momentum have to be conserved. This not possible in vacuum, but it is possible in the Coulomb field of a nucleus, because the heavy nucleus can carry away a lot of momentum with only a small amount of energy loss. It is much easier to create electron positron pairs with photons over about 2 MeV (threshold 1.02 MeV) near high-Z nuclei, like lead, for example, than copper.
 

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