Reimann Integral definition confusion.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of the Riemann integral, particularly focusing on the conditions under which a bounded function is considered Riemann integrable. Participants express confusion regarding the presence of epsilon in various definitions found online compared to their lecture notes.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants question the sufficiency of the definitions provided in their lecture notes, particularly the absence of epsilon in the context of Riemann integrability. Others explore the implications of the Darboux integral and its equivalence to the Riemann integral.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the nuances of the definitions and their implications. Some have provided examples to illustrate when a function may not be integrable, while others are seeking clarification on the relationship between the definitions and the role of epsilon.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a potential misunderstanding regarding the definitions and the criteria for Riemann integrability, particularly in relation to the use of limits and partitions. The discussion also highlights the importance of boundedness in the context of these definitions.

sid9221
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My lecture notes say:

Let f:[a,b]->R be bounded.
F is said to rienmann integrable if:

L=\int_{a}^{b} f(x)=U

where :

L=Sup(L(f,P))

and

U=Inf(U,(f,P))


but everywhere else(internet) there's a definition with epsilon.
I have the epsilon stuff later under "riemann criterion" so was wondering if the above definition is okay or I copied something wrong
 
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Never heard of a darboux integral will this definition suffice if asked for a riemann integral?
 
sid9221 said:
My lecture notes say:

Let f:[a,b]->R be bounded.
F is said to rienmann integrable if:

L=\int_{a}^{b} f(x)=U

where :

L=Sup(L(f,P))

and

U=Inf(U,(f,P))


but everywhere else(internet) there's a definition with epsilon.
I have the epsilon stuff later under "riemann criterion" so was wondering if the above definition is okay or I copied something wrong

Actually, this is an equality in the limit, i.e., you need to be able to make the difference

L-U as small as possible, i.e., show that there are partitions such that, for all e>0,

L-U<e .

Or, if you really want to go over the top, use net-convergence on the partitions.
 
sid9221 said:
My lecture notes say:

Let f:[a,b]->R be bounded.
F is said to rienmann integrable if:

L=\int_{a}^{b} f(x)=U

where :

L=Sup(L(f,P))

and

U=Inf(U,(f,P))


but everywhere else(internet) there's a definition with epsilon.
I have the epsilon stuff later under "riemann criterion" so was wondering if the above definition is okay or I copied something wrong
Yes, the "epsilon stuff" is hidden in the sup and inf- they are limits. If they are equal, then f is "integrable" and their common value is the integral of f.

Here is an example in which it does NOT work and so f is not integrable: let f(x)= 0 if x is rational and 1 if x is irrational. Now, divide the interval from a to b into n sub-intervals. Inside any such sub-interval, there exist both rational and irrational numbers so f(x) has values of both 0 and 1 inside each interval. That means that each L(f, P), the sum of the minimum height and base of each interval, is 0 and each U(f, P), the sum of the maximum height and base of each interval is 1. The "sup" is 1 and the "inf" is 0. They are not the same so f is not integrable.
 
In real analysis, a branch of mathematics, the Darboux integral or Darboux sum is one possible definition of the integral of a function. Darboux integrals are equivalent to Riemann integrals, meaning that a function is Darboux-integrable if and only if it is Riemann-integrable, and the values of the two integrals, if they exist, are equal.

Darboux sum is important here.

We define upper Darboux sum and lower Darboux sum, and say that function is Riemann-integrable iff \displaystyle\sup_{P}L_{f,P} = \displaystyle\inf_{P}U_{f,P} iff \forall \varepsilon&gt;0 ~\forall P ~ \exists \delta&gt;0~ \mbox{if} ~\lambda(P)&lt;\delta ~\mbox{then} ~|U_{f,P}-L_{f,P}|&lt;\varepsilon, where \lambda = <br /> \displaystyle\max_{1\le k \le n} |x_{k}-x_{k-1}|

We supposed that f is bounded.
 

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