Relations on Sets: Need help understanding a mistake

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The discussion centers on whether the union of two transitive relations, R and S, on a set A is also transitive. The initial argument incorrectly concludes that R ∪ S is transitive by analyzing cases based solely on elements in R or S. A counterexample demonstrates that R ∪ S can fail to be transitive, as shown with specific relations on a three-element set. Participants highlight that the proof's flaw lies in assuming that elements can be restricted to one relation without considering the other. The conclusion emphasizes that while R and S are transitive individually, their union does not guarantee transitivity.
WWCY
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Homework Statement


Suppose ##R## and ##S## are relations on a set ##A##.

If ##R## and ##S## are transitive, is ##R \cup S## transitive? Why?

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Suppose that ##a## is an arbitrarily but particularly picked element of ##R \cup S##, then
$$a \in R \ \text{or} \ a \in S$$
By division into cases, suppose ##a \in R##,
Suppose ##b,c## are elements of ##R##, such that ##(a, b) \in R## and ##(b,c) \in R##
By definition of ##R##, ##(a,c) \in R##

I then carried out the exact same steps for the case ##a \in S## and concluded that ##R \cup S## is transitive.

However, I also managed to find a counter example by defining ##A = \{ a,b,c \}##, ##R = \{ (a,b) \}##, ##S = \{ (b,c) \}##, ##R \cup S = \{ (a,b) , (b,c) \}##. The fact that ##b \in R \cap S## suggests to me that my division into cases wasn't done right, but aren't my steps analogous to the division into cases seen in problems with statement variables?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!
 
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WWCY said:
Suppose that ##a## is an arbitrarily but particularly picked element of ##R \cup S##, then
$$a \in R \ \text{or} \ a \in S$$
By division into cases, suppose ##a \in R##,
Suppose ##b,c## are elements of ##R##, such that ##(a, b) \in R## and ##(b,c) \in R##
By definition of ##R##, ##(a,c) \in R##

Just because ##a \in R## doesn't allow you to restrict yourself to ##R## for any remaining arbitrary elements of ##R \cup S##.

I'm not familiar enough with the specific material to help further, but aren't relations a subset of the Cartesian product of a set with itself?
 
PS Your counterexample is valid. Your proof is invalid because a) it treats relations as subset of ##A##; and b) the mistake that without loss of generality you can take all elements to be in ##R##.
 
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WWCY said:
If ##R## and ##S## are transitive, is ##R \cup S## transitive? Why?
If ##(x,y)\in R\cup S## then it is in either of them, say in ##R##. Then for any ##a\in A## we find a path ##(x,y) \sim \ldots \sim (z,a)## in ##R \subseteq R\cup S##.
 
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Question: A clock's minute hand has length 4 and its hour hand has length 3. What is the distance between the tips at the moment when it is increasing most rapidly?(Putnam Exam Question) Answer: Making assumption that both the hands moves at constant angular velocities, the answer is ## \sqrt{7} .## But don't you think this assumption is somewhat doubtful and wrong?

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