Relativistic Acceleration Contradiction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relativistic acceleration and its implications as an object's velocity approaches the speed of light. Participants explore the mathematical definitions and transformations related to relativistic force and acceleration, raising questions about apparent contradictions in the theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the relativistic force is defined as F = m*(du/dt)*(gamma)^3, leading to the conclusion that acceleration a = (du/dt)*(gamma)^3.
  • Another participant points out that as velocity v approaches the speed of light c, gamma approaches infinity, suggesting that acceleration should tend to zero, which seems contradictory.
  • A participant questions the exclusion of gamma^3 in the expression for acceleration, seeking clarification on its role.
  • One reply clarifies that the relativistic acceleration should indeed be expressed as (du/dt) = F/(m(gamma)^3), indicating that acceleration decreases as velocity approaches c.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of acceleration transformation, linking it to velocity transformations and suggesting a differentiation approach to understand the relationship better.
  • A later contribution discusses "four acceleration," emphasizing the importance of the observer's frame of reference in measuring acceleration and how it relates to proper time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of relativistic acceleration and its mathematical representation. While some clarify aspects of the equations, there remains no consensus on the implications of these transformations and the definitions of acceleration in different frames of reference.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of acceleration and the frames of reference used by observers. The discussion highlights the complexity of relativistic effects and the need for careful consideration of how measurements are taken.

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Hello everyone! I apologize if my first post is of a problem that may seem like a really silly one. But it was something we were stuck with today in Modern Physics class. It is NOT a homework assignment!

We have proved that relativistic force, F = m*(du/dt)*(gamma)3 where gamma is the Lorentz factor. This definition of relativistic force was derived by differentiating the definition of relativistic linear momentum with respect to time.

Now the silly problem that must have a simple solution somehow:
Theoretically, we say that as we increase the velocity of an object up to the speed of light then the acceleration will tend to get to zero. Meaning we can never accelerate beyond the speed of light.

This is the theory.
By looking at the mathematics involved:

We know from the definition of F above that a = (du/dt)*(gamma)3, the relativistic acceleration.
Also, gamma = 1/(1 - (v2/c2))0.5.
If we let v approach c (let's say v=c at the extreme) then this would result in the denominator approaching 0 and thus gamma approaching infinity. Which is in contradiction to the previous statement we made regarding acceleration.

My question is simple: The theoretical statement is definitely right so what went wrong in the mathematics and messed it all up?
 
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If force F = m*(du/dt)*(gamma)3

then acceleration a = (du/dt) = F/(m(gamma)3),

which tends to zero as v tends to c.
 
Well this is where I'm puzzled!
Isn't the relativistic acceleration supposed to be gamma^3*(du/dt)?
So why exclude gamma^3?

Sorry if I'm being rather annoying :(
 
[tex]a_x = \gamma^{-3} a_x^\prime[/tex]

[tex]\lim_{v \to c} \frac{1}{\gamma^3} = \lim_{v \to c} \sqrt{1- \frac{v^2}{c^2}}^3[/tex]

You are neglecting the reciprocal, which can be easy to do since gamma is already in a reciprocal form. The reciprocal of gamma approaches zero as v approaches c.
 
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Thank you blkqi...That cleared it up a bit!
If I understood this correctly:
-Relativistic acceleration = du/dt and NOT (gamma^3)*(du/dt)
-Therefore du/dt = (F/m)(1/(gamma)^3)
From which we can easily get the answer that agrees with the theory.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's about it, right?
 
Sorry, I added the acceleration transformation above.
 
EDIT: Checking the link!
We didn't really take the acceleration transformation equation but I will try and digest it fully and come back to this thread. But, just by the looks of it, I think I pretty much understand intuitively what you're saying!
 
The acceleration transformation is just a direct consequence of the velocity transformations.

You probably know the tranform for [tex]v_x^\prime[/tex] and [tex]t^\prime[/tex]

You also know [tex]a_x^\prime = \frac{dv_x^\prime}{dt^\prime}[/tex].

So you just differentiate [tex]v_x^\prime[/tex] via quotient rule. Then substitute in the transform [tex]dt^\prime[/tex]
 
  • #10
Perhaps by "relativistic acceleration" you are thinking of "four acceleration" which is change in the "four velocity" of an object with respect to its own proper time, where in turn the "four velocity" is the change in distance relative to the change in proper time of the object. In other words it is the acceleration felt by observers on the accelerating object. The distance is the non length contracted distance measured by the observers in its initial frame and the proper time of the object is continually slowing down relative to clocks in the initial frame.

So if the acceleration measured by observers in the initial frame is (a) the acceleration measured by observers undergoing the acceleration is [itex]a^\prime = a * \gamma^{3}[/tex]. The cubed gamma factor come about like this. In the momentarily comoving frame of the accelerating object a' = (du')/(dt') = [itex](dx')/(dt ')^2[/itex]. In the initial frame [itex]a = (dx '*\gamma^{-1})/(dt '*\gamma)^2 = (dx ')/(dt ')^2 * \gamma^{-3}[/itex] [itex]= (du '/dt ')* \gamma^{-3}[/itex].<br /> <br /> The confusion and apparent contradiction comes about because you have not specified who measures the acceleration and how it is measured.[/itex]
 
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  • #11
blkqi: Yup! That's clear enough now, thank you!
kev: I think that last post of yours clears everything I had doubts about! Thank you!
 

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