Relativistic Action: Lorentz Transform to Get Action A

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Lorentz transformations to the action in different reference frames, particularly focusing on how to derive the action A' for a moving observer from the action A observed at rest. The scope includes theoretical considerations of relativistic action and the implications of Lorentz invariance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to understand how to transform the action A observed at rest to the action A' in a moving frame using Lorentz transformations.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the initial statement regarding the action A, suggesting it may not be well-defined.
  • There is a proposal that the action should be considered in terms of the path that minimizes the action integral, although this is contested by the original poster who wants to treat action independently.
  • A participant describes the action for a relativistic point particle as S = -m∫dτ, emphasizing that Lorentz invariance is inherent in this formulation.
  • Concerns are raised about the relationship between energy and time intervals as perceived by different observers, specifically questioning whether Edt = E'dt' holds true under Lorentz transformations.
  • Another participant suggests that there may be confusion between coordinate time and proper time, highlighting that proper time is Lorentz invariant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding and interpretation of the action and its transformation. There is no consensus on the clarity of the initial question or the implications of the Lorentz transformation on the action.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the potential confusion between coordinate time and proper time, which may affect the understanding of the relationship between energy and time intervals in different frames.

actionintegral
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I am at rest. I see an object with action A. Someone moves by with
velocity v. How should I use the Lorentz transform to get the action A' in his frame?
 
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What do you mean by "I see an object with action A"? This doesn't make much sense to me.
 
Do you mean an "I see an object which follows a path that minimises the action integral A"?
 
Jheriko said:
Do you mean an "I see an object which follows a path that minimises the action integral A"?

Not really - I am trying to treat action on it's own merit. Let's keep the path (dt) or (dx) infinitesimally small.
 
I'm still confused. The action is just a number formed from an integral of some quantity:

[tex]S = \int L(q,\dot{q}).[/tex]

If you're interested in an action which is appropriate for, say, a relativistic point particle of mass [itex]m[/itex], then the obvious candidate is

[tex]S = -m\int d\tau[/tex]

where [itex]d\tau[/itex] is the infinitesimal proper time along the world-line. The point here is that Lorentz invariance is built in to the action from the start since [itex]d\tau[/itex] is a Lorentz invariant. Because of this you're guaranteed that the equation of motion that you get from varying this action will automatically be Lorentz invariant also.

Apologies if I'm missing something here, but the question seems trivial.
 
coalquay404 said:
the obvious candidate is
...
the question seems trivial.

What I am missing is the following: I am at rest. I see an object with energy E. I watch it for time dt. I calculate E*T. A moving person will see the same object with energy E' and the time interval in question is dt'. It is not obvious to me that Edt = E'dt' but I will try to convince myself of that.
 
actionintegral said:
What I am missing is the following: I am at rest. I see an object with energy E. I watch it for time dt. I calculate E*T. A moving person will see the same object with energy E' and the time interval in question is dt'. It is not obvious to me that Edt = E'dt' but I will try to convince myself of that.

Is it possible, that you are confusing the coordinate time t and the proper time [tex]\tau[/tex], which is by definition Lorentz invariant (as coalquay404 explained) as it is the square root of the spacetime interval?
 

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