News Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, 6 YTBN Shot, Killed In Tuscon AZ

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U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords was among at least 18 people shot during a constituent meeting at a Tucson grocery store. Initial reports indicated she was shot in the head at point-blank range, leading to concerns about her survival. Eyewitness accounts described the chaotic scene, with multiple casualties, including a federal judge and a child, and a suspect, identified as Jared Lee Loughner, was taken into custody. Discussions centered around the nature of the attack, with speculation about whether it was politically motivated or a personal vendetta. Medical professionals on the scene provided aid, but the prognosis for many victims was grim. The incident sparked debates about gun control and the motivations behind such violent acts, with some arguing that mental illness played a significant role. The tragedy raised concerns about the safety of public figures and the potential impact on political discourse.
  • #691
emphasis mine
russ_watters said:
Here's an interesting twist: while people have been discussing whether political rhetoric from the right could have caused this shooting, the discussion seems to have convinced a shooting victim to become like the shooter!

edward said:
BTW the shooting victim used a camera.


Oh man, talk about scathing words. Touché!
 
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  • #692
DevilsAvocado said:
edward, thank you so very much for the information. You live there, you have firsthand information, and you know what is going on. This is much better than any news channel, thanks man.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUilvsCHNZM

It looks like there must be much better alternatives. I’m not sure about the language... Kelly is what you call a "Borderline" confusion...?




This is a tragedy ... I don’t know what to say ... I’m normally not a 'weeping sensitive', but when I see Gabrielle Giffords talking at "Congress on Your Corner" ... it’s tough ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6Vw_M3tZ0


What does any of this have to do with the shooting of Rep. Giffords? What is the connection? Did the shooter belong to the group? Was the shooter a campaign worker for Kelly? Was there correspondence between the shooter and Kelly? Is Kelly a suspect? What is your point?
 
  • #693
bdjr6r.jpg
 
  • #694
DevilsAvocado said:
bdjr6r.jpg

This is a re-post. Do you have a point - what are you trying to say?
 
  • #695
lisab said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa...not so fast there declaring who "we" are. I require my representatives to have *a lot* more qualifications than "war hero" and "terrorist killer". Those skills are great on the battlefield, but I have no evidence they translate into an making a person an effective representative.

Thanks a lot for those words lisab. It looks like intelligent women are the only one who understands the problem (Mama Grizzlies don’t count):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOp8TdNJvm8
 
  • #696
DevilsAvocado said:
Thanks a lot for those words lisab. It looks like intelligent women are the only one who understands the problem (Mama Grizzlies don’t count):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOp8TdNJvm8

You can't be serious?

If she was run over by a car and Kelly had invited people to drive a stock car - would you post his ad? If not, why not - Rep. Gifford wasn't shot with an M-16 and the shooter had no contact with Kelly.
As for Palin - she copied a (Democratic group) map that targeted Republican candidates - didn't she?
 
  • #697
DA: I really respect your passion, but this man is probably psychotic: nobody CAUSED this if that's the case, including Loughner really. Either way, I don't see how this return to blaming politics can lead to anything other than another layer of cynicism once its used.

Lets focus on the issues:

We have such a pathetic mental health service nationwide, that people like Loughner slips under the radar.

The USA has issues with guns... the proposed solutions vary, but the problem is there; we kill each other with guns disproportionately often.

Politics and Media (Glenn Beck, Kieth Olberman for examples) are so hysterical and based on such fear-mongering and the manufacturing of paranoia, that again... Loughner's rants no longer stand out.

None of that changes 6 dead people, a woman who's progress is measured in, "breathing on her own" (note the lack of news about her talking...); the result shouldn't be a political debate.
 
  • #698
edward said:
It looks like the stone throwing and name calling just began??

Do you know how many times people have, intentionally or not, come close to scuttling this thread? I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet.
 
  • #699
WhoWee said:
As for Palin - she copied a (Democratic group) map that targeted Republican candidates - didn't she?
No she didn't. The Democratic leadership council color-coded states by popular vote, including putting archery targets over states that the GOP had taken by single-digits. They were pointing out to their membership and donors where gains could be made with extra investment in money and manpower.

Unlike Palin, they didn't put cross-hairs on candidates' districts, nor name anybody. The "both sides do it" argument is pretty thin. This thread is about Giffords' shooting and her (hopefully!) recovery, but I couldn't let that comment stand without pointing out the obvious qualitative differences between the graphics.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171
 
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  • #700
turbo-1 said:
No she didn't. The Democratic leadership council color-coded states by popular vote, including putting archery targets over states that the GOP had taken by single-digits.
Archery targets instead of cross-hairs, huh? Does that mean they were advocating the use of bows and arrows? :rolleyes:

Isn't it about time for the silliness to end?
 
  • #701
Al68 said:
Archery targets instead of cross-hairs, huh? Does that mean they were advocating the use of bows and arrows? :rolleyes:

Isn't it about time for the silliness to end?

Yes, you get the last word, brilliant.

Back to the topic at hand, Giffords has had successful surgery to remove bone fragments from her eye. This is very good news, as they felt secure enough to operate on something less than live-saving.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/17/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1

CNN said:
NEW: Giffords could be discharged in "days to weeks"
NEW: There are indications she recognizes her husband
NEW: The other two victims still hospitalized are doing well
 
  • #702
WhoWee said:
and the shooter had no contact with Kelly.
Actually, it's quite likely that the shooter saw Kelly's ads. It's possible those ads prompted him to buy the gun and plan the whole thing. We don't know.
 
  • #703
Evo said:
Actually, it's quite likely that the shooter saw Kelly's ads. It's possible those ads prompted him to buy the gun and plan the whole thing. We don't know.

True; if he could have done this for demented reasons, he could have done them for that unless I'm right and he's Schizophrenic: DT... I'd expect to have heard or read more about his plan; he'd be in no mental state to keep secrets, as we've seen.
 
  • #704
nismaratwork said:
Do we REALLY think it's a good twist that people are conflating the nearly hysterical rhetoric of a survivor of a shooting, and the shooter. The fact that people on the right and left want to blame external forces is just another way of saying, "we have no responsibility for ignoring problems like Loughner, and when this story goes away, we'll go back to that." Better and easier to live believing he's a one-off copy... right? :rolleyes:

yup, the torch-wielding mob is all ready to send Loughner on a dirt nap. mental illness is just a character flaw, after all. maybe if he'd gone to church, this wouldn't have happened.
 
  • #705
Proton Soup said:
yup, the torch-wielding mob is all ready to send Loughner on a dirt nap. mental illness is just a character flaw, after all. maybe if he'd gone to church, this wouldn't have happened.

I'd say that's both factually accurate, and very perceptive. Sad too, but you didn't make the world, so I guess asking you to fix it would be unreasonable... right?
 
  • #706
turbo-1 said:
No she didn't. The Democratic leadership council color-coded states by popular vote, including putting archery targets over states that the GOP had taken by single-digits. They were pointing out to their membership and donors where gains could be made with extra investment in money and manpower.

Unlike Palin, they didn't put cross-hairs on candidates' districts, nor name anybody. The "both sides do it" argument is pretty thin. This thread is about Giffords' shooting and her (hopefully!) recovery, but I couldn't let that comment stand without pointing out the obvious qualitative differences between the graphics.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

Thank you turbo for pointing out the differences - can we now move forward?
 
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  • #707
Evo said:
Actually, it's quite likely that the shooter saw Kelly's ads. It's possible those ads prompted him to buy the gun and plan the whole thing. We don't know.

I'm not aware of him attending one of Kelly'e events - he may have watched the 9/11 conspiracy films and decided to kill all Government officials - we really don't know.
 
  • #708
WhoWee said:
I'm not aware of him attending one of Kelly'e events - he may have watched the 9/11 conspiracy films and decided to kill all Government officials - we really don't know.

I think that's exactly Evo's point.
 
  • #709
DevilsAvocado said:
emphasis mine


Oh man, talk about scathing words. Touché!

well, i suppose the death threat made the camera-as-weapon part a wee bit more ominous.
 
  • #710
WhoWee said:
I'm not aware of him attending one of Kelly'e events - he may have watched the 9/11 conspiracy films and decided to kill all Government officials - we really don't know.
He didn't have to attend anything, he might have, he could have watched him on tv and read his ads. Why do you find that hard to believe? Do you have a list of every move he made last year, every tv commercial he watched, news reports, etc? No? Kelly was campaining where the shooter lived. The shooter would have to have lived in a hole to not have seen and heard him.
 
  • #711
Evo said:
Actually, it's quite likely that the shooter saw Kelly's ads. It's possible those ads prompted him to buy the gun and plan the whole thing. We don't know.
We can't speak to his motivation, but it would have been virtually impossible for him to have missed Kelly's ads on radio and TV in such a heated campaign.

Maine is a small-market, but we get saturated with political ads during major (congressional/presidential) campaigns. You'd have to live in a cave to miss them.
 
  • #712
turbo-1 said:
We can't speak to his motivation, but it would have been virtually impossible for him to have missed Kelly's ads on radio and TV in such a heated campaign.

Why is that - how often did he listen to the radio? How often did he watch TV? Did he listen/watch the channels Kelly advertised on during the times of the ads? Please support.
 
  • #713
Evo said:
He didn't have to attend anything, he might have, he could have watched him on tv and read his ads. Why do you find that hard to believe? Do you have a list of every move he made last year, every tv commercial he watched, news reports, etc? No? Kelly was campaining where the shooter lived. The shooter would have to have lived in a hole to not have seen and heard him.

This is what I posted "If not, why not - Rep. Gifford wasn't shot with an M-16 and the shooter had no contact with Kelly."

When I said "contact" - I meant personal contact. We know the shooter had a verbal exchange and a written exchange with Rep. Giffords. I am not aware of any direct connection to Kelly?
 
  • #714
maybe he was influenced by Giffords' ads. he couldn't have missed them.
 
  • #715
Wow... so... there's actual news on condition of 2 people mentioned in the OP, but we're back to which political candidate "inspired" the psychotic?!
 
  • #716
nismaratwork said:
Wow... so... there's actual news on condition of 2 people mentioned in the OP, but we're back to which political candidate "inspired" the psychotic?!

yup.
 
  • #717
WhoWee said:
This is what I posted "If not, why not - Rep. Gifford wasn't shot with an M-16 and the shooter had no contact with Kelly."

When I said "contact" - I meant personal contact. We know the shooter had a verbal exchange and a written exchange with Rep. Giffords. I am not aware of any direct connection to Kelly?
Kelly was Gifford's opponent. Loughner could very well have supported Kelly against Giffords, Giffords won. To say that Loughner was not aware of Kelly is mind boggling, of course he had to know.
 
  • #718
turbo-1 said:
The "both sides do it" argument is pretty thin.
No, your contention to the contrary is pretty thin.
http://washingtonindependent.com/100315/manchin-shoots-down-cap-and-trade
Gov. Joe Manchin (D) in his suddenly tight Senate race in West Virginia, ... It also represents a rare twofer, in which Manchin both touts his National Rifle Association endorsement and literally shoots a piece of environmental legislation in the same pull of a trigger:
 
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  • #719
Evo said:
Kelly was Gifford's opponent. Loughner could very well have supported Kelly against Giffords, Giffords won. To say that Loughner was not aware of Kelly is mind boggling, of course he had to know.

I watched a reporter walk down the street in New York last week asking people to pick the Vice President from a list of 4 names (including Biden) - none picked Biden - but Hillary fared well. I don't know what this distrurbed person was aware of or not? All I said was that he didn't have contact - meaning personal contact.
 
  • #720
WhoWee said:
All I said was that he didn't have contact - meaning personal contact.
You can't say that, you don't know that.

I also don't kow why you keep bringing that up either, why would he need to have had personal contact with Kelly?
 

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