Rest Mass Definition: What is E=MC2?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of rest mass in the context of the equation E=mc². Participants explore the relationship between mass and energy, the implications of rest mass, and the nuances of how these concepts are understood in different reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that rest mass is simply energy that is stationary, but this definition lacks clarity regarding the reference frame.
  • Others argue that rest mass is the mass measured in a frame of reference stationary with respect to the object, and that it can still be associated with energy that is moving in other frames.
  • A participant notes that rest mass and rest energy are equivalent and proportional, emphasizing that "stationary" must be defined with respect to a reference frame.
  • There is a discussion about the conversion factor c² in E=mc², with some participants asserting it is not solely for unit conversion but has deeper implications in relativity.
  • One participant highlights that while mass and energy are related, they are not the same, and emphasizes the complexity of the concept of mass.
  • Another participant mentions that mathematical equations should not be mistaken for definitions, illustrating this with the example of electric current.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition of rest mass and its relationship to energy. There is no consensus on a singular definition, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nuances of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various definitions and aspects of mass, indicating that the understanding of mass is multifaceted and context-dependent. The discussion includes references to different units and the implications of using natural units in relativity.

avito009
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I was remembering the equation E=MC2. So as per me Rest Mass is nothing but Energy that is stationary. Am I right?
 
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The "rest mass" is the mass of an object measured in a frame of reference that is stationary with respect to the object.
The mass may be "moving around" in some other reference frame, but it still has rest mass - therefore rest mass can be energy that is moving around.

Note: ##E=mc^2## just means that mass is a form of energy.
 
Simon Bridge said:
Note: E=mc2E=mc^2 just means that mass is a form of energy.
Rest mass and rest energy are equivalent and remain proportional to one another. I am not talking about object that is moving here.

Now E=MC2. Energy and mass are equivalent and the "C2" is the conversion factor because the mass has to be converted into units of Energy. Mass is measured in Kilograms and Energy is measured in Joules. So to convert Kilograms to Joules "C2" would be used.
 
Rest mass and rest energy are equivalent and remain proportional to one another. I am not talking about object that is moving here.
... this is correct. What I want you to realize is that "rest mass" does not refer only to "energy that is stationary". In the context of Einstein's relativity there is no absolute motion, so there is no absolute for "stationary" either. The word "stationary" must be used with a reference frame. Stationary with respect to what? Moving with respect to what? So when you said:
Rest Mass is nothing but Energy that is stationary.
... you forgot to say what it is stationary with respect to.
The statement is correct if you mean "stationary with respect to itself"... suddenly does not sound so profound does it :)

Now E=MC2. Energy and mass are equivalent and the "C2" is the conversion factor because the mass has to be converted into units of Energy. Mass is measured in Kilograms and Energy is measured in Joules. So to convert Kilograms to Joules "C2" would be used.
... the kg and the J are the SI units for mass and energy respectively. These are not the only units. Speed is also measured in miles-per-hour, mass in pounds, and energy in ergs, for example.

When you do relativity a lot you will start using "natural" units... these are units chosen so that c=1 - so the equation becomes E=M.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_units

[edit] The ##c^2## is not there just to convert the units - if unit conversion were the only reason, then any old speed will do. For instance, the mass multiplied by the escape velocity from the surface of the Earth would have units of energy...

Niggle: usually the rest mass m and the invariant speed c are represented in lower-case letters.
The full mass-energy relation is ##E=\gamma mc^2##
 
Last edited:
avito009 said:
I was remembering the equation E=MC2. So as per me Rest Mass is nothing but Energy that is stationary. Am I right?
Rest mass is also known as invariant mass and is given by ##m^2c^2=E^2/c^2-p^2##. So if momentum is 0 then that reduces to the famous ##E=mc^2##.

Note that it is a mistake to say "energy is mass" since they differ when momentum is not 0 even in units where c=1 (mass is invariant and energy is not), but when (as you said) the energy is stationary then it is numerically equal to mass in units where c=1.
 
avito009 said:
I was remembering the equation E=MC2. So as per me Rest Mass is nothing but Energy that is stationary. Am I right?

Remember that mathematical equations are not definitions. For example, the equation for electric current is I=V/R, or current equals voltage divided by resistance. But this doesn't mean that current is voltage or resistance, or that voltage or resistance is current. Each one has its own definition and all three are related, but they are not the same thing.

Similarly, mass and energy are related by the equation E=MC2, but that doesn't necessarily mean that energy and mass are the same thing. (Of course it doesn't mean that they aren't the same thing either) If I remember correctly, Einstein's original thought process regarding energy and mass was that if a quantity of energy is added or removed from a system, a corresponding amount of mass is added or removed as well, with the amount of mass and energy related by Einstein's equation.

Mass is a complicated concept that has multiple aspects. Wiki lists them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass#Definitions_of_mass
 

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