Retarded potentials in disspersive media

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations and theoretical frameworks for retarded potentials in dispersive media, contrasting them with established theories in vacuum. Participants explore classical and quantum approaches to dispersion theory and its implications for modeling electromagnetic interactions in such media.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the existence of equations for retarded potentials specifically in dispersive media, noting that they have only encountered formulations for vacuum.
  • Another participant references a source, A. Sommerfeld's Lectures on Theoretical Physics IV, suggesting it contains a description of classical dispersion theory.
  • A follow-up question seeks clarification on whether the referenced source includes equations applicable to dispersive media.
  • One participant explains that classical dispersion theory provides a complex-valued dielectric function derived from a damped harmonic oscillator model, which parallels results found in quantum-field theory regarding retarded in-medium Green's functions.
  • Another participant expresses a preference for simpler models, indicating a lack of interest in complex media.
  • A later reply asserts that a dispersive medium inherently involves losses, referencing the Kramers-Kronig relation, and suggests the Debye relaxation model as a foundational approach for understanding dielectric dispersion.
  • This participant emphasizes the utility of the Debye model while noting its applicability is limited to a finite bandwidth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity of models for dispersive media, with some favoring simpler approaches while others advocate for more comprehensive theories. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the preferred modeling approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on specific models and the implications of using classical versus quantum approaches. There is an acknowledgment of limitations regarding the applicability of certain models over varying bandwidths.

hunt_mat
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Are there any equations for these? I have seen in books for the vacuum case but not for a dispersive media.
 
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A very nice description of classical dispersion theory can be found in

A. Sommerfeld, Lectures on Theoretical Physics IV (Optics)
 
Do they include the equations for a dispersive media though? I can get the basic theory from Griffiths (it's very well explained).
 
The classical dispersion theory gives you the (complex-valued) dielectric function [itex]\epsilon(\omega)[/itex] from a simple damped harmonic oscillator ansatz for the electrons in the medium interacting with the incoming em. wave.

Quantum-field theoretically you find very similar results as the retarded in-medium Green's function of the em. field. Quantum mechanical dispersion theory on this linear-response level is not so different from the classical theory.
 
Interesting. I am not that interested in complex mediums, just a simple multiplicative description.
 
hunt_mat said:
Interesting. I am not that interested in complex mediums, just a simple multiplicative description.

You can't avoid it though. A dispersive media always implies a lossy media by virtue of the Kramers-Kronig relation. As vanhees states though, the simplest model for a dispersive media is a simple oscillator as modeled by the Debye relaxation (or its variants like the Cole-Cole, Cole-Davidson, etc.). I would use Debye relaxation as a basic start for modeling dielectric dispersion. As simple as it is, it's very useful in application as long as you realize that it is meant to be applied over a finite bandwidth.
 

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