Reviewing Cross Product: Simplest Method Possible

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the simplest method to calculate torque using the cross product, particularly in the context of preparing for a test. Participants share their approaches and seek clarification on the process, including the relationship between the cross product and the dot product in determining angles.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over their previous method of calculating torque and requests a simpler step-by-step solution.
  • Another participant provides a detailed calculation of torque using the cross product, including normalization of the force vector and substitution into the torque formula.
  • A participant questions whether there is a simpler way to first solve for the angle theta before proceeding with the torque calculation.
  • One participant reflects on their understanding of the problem, noting that they initially used both the dot product and the cross product, which they now find makes sense in retrospect.
  • Another participant confirms the approach of using the dot product to find the angle between vectors before applying the cross product to find torque.
  • There is a light-hearted exchange regarding a "green stain" on a participant's answer, suggesting a casual atmosphere amidst the technical discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a single method for calculating torque, as some prefer using the dot product to find the angle first, while others opt for a direct approach with the cross product. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the simplest method.

Contextual Notes

Participants' methods depend on their familiarity with the relationships between the dot product, cross product, and the angles involved. There are unresolved steps in the calculations presented, and the discussion reflects varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problem.

ineedhelpnow
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HEY GUYS! (Wave)
ok so i have this question i did. and now I am reviewing for the test and i looked at how i did it and i did in the most complicated way ever. i don't FULLY understand chegg's method. so i hope someone can provide me with the SIMPLEST method possible. thank u! (Blush) (p.s. don't ask me what the green stain on my final answer is because i have no idea) i would really appreciate a step by step solution at one shot so i can fully understand it.

View attachment 3211View attachment 3213View attachment 3212View attachment 3210

$\left| \tau\right| = \left| r \right| \left| F \right| sin (\theta)$
 

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ineedhelpnow said:
HEY GUYS! (Wave)
ok so i have this question i did. and now I am reviewing for the test and i looked at how i did it and i did in the most complicated way ever. i don't FULLY understand chegg's method. so i hope someone can provide me with the SIMPLEST method possible. thank u! (Blush) (p.s. don't ask me what the green stain on my final answer is because i have no idea) i would really appreciate a step by step solution at one shot so i can fully understand it.

Your result is correct! (Yes)

Here is how I would do it.

The formula for torque is:
$$\boldsymbol{\tau} = \mathbf r \times \mathbf F \tag 1$$

Normalizing the direction vector of the force, we have:
$$\mathbf{\hat F} = \frac 1 5 \begin{pmatrix}0\\3\\-4\end{pmatrix} \tag 2$$

Substituting the data of $\mathbf r$ and $(2)$ into $(1)$ we get:
$$\boldsymbol\tau
= \begin{pmatrix}0\\0.3\\0\end{pmatrix}
\times \frac 1 5 F \begin{pmatrix}0\\3\\-4\end{pmatrix}
=\frac{1}{50}F \begin{pmatrix}0\\3\\0\end{pmatrix}
\times \begin{pmatrix}0\\3\\-4\end{pmatrix}
=\frac{1}{50}F \begin{pmatrix}-12\\0\\0\end{pmatrix}
$$

So:
$$\tau=\frac{12}{50}F=100 \Rightarrow F = 417 \text{ N}$$

Btw, what is that $\color{Green}{\text{green stain}}$ on your answer?
Were you eating? (Wondering)
 
ive never really seen it don't that way. is there an easy way to first solve for theta and then continue the rest of the problem.

lol i don't know. i think its a food stain. i was eating while doing it. i think its like oil or something (Giggle)
 
now that i look back at it, i think it does make sense the way i did it. when i was doing it, i didnt get it much but now i realize that all i did was use the dot product as well as the cross product. i think i understand it more now because I am familiar with the equation $r \cdot v= \left| r \right| \left| v \right| cos (\theta)$
 
ineedhelpnow said:
ive never really seen it don't that way. is there an easy way to first solve for theta and then continue the rest of the problem.

That's how your solution works.
First use the dot product to find the angle between the 2 vectors:
$$\mathbf r \cdot \mathbf v = r_x v_x + r_y v_y + r_z v_z$$
$$\mathbf r \cdot \mathbf v = |r|\cdot |v|\cdot \cos(\theta)$$
Then use the cross product to find the torque:
$$\tau = |\mathbf r \times \mathbf F| = |r|\cdot |F|\cdot \sin(\theta)$$

In my version I skipped those steps with the dot product, and went straight for the cross product.
 

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