RF magnetic field generation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around generating an RF magnetic field at variable frequencies (1 to 20 MHz) using a specific RF amplifier. Participants explore practical approaches to connecting a current loop to the amplifier, impedance matching, and considerations for the application of the magnetic field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about directly connecting a current loop to the RF amplifier and whether a 50 Ohm resistor should be added.
  • Another participant suggests that while direct connection is possible, an impedance transformer may improve performance by matching the load impedance to the amplifier's output.
  • Concerns are raised about the load impedance being constant at 10 Ohms across the frequency range, with a request for calculations to support this claim.
  • A suggestion is made to use a 4:1 balun for impedance matching, though there is confusion about the correct ratio.
  • Participants discuss the need for clarity on the application's requirements, such as the spatial volume of the magnetic field and the nature of the samples being tested.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of preventing unwanted RF radiation and suggests various structures (resonant cavity, transmission line, waveguide, Helmholtz coils) for generating the magnetic field.
  • Another participant mentions that the amplifier can operate safely into any load and recommends trying a direct connection first.
  • It is noted that the coil's impedance can potentially be made to present a 50 Ohm resistive load using capacitors, though measuring actual loss resistance is complex.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of direct connection versus using impedance matching techniques. There is no consensus on the constancy of the load impedance across the specified frequency range, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach for practical implementation.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of accurately determining the coil's loss resistance and the implications of varying load impedance across different frequencies. The discussion also highlights the need for further clarification on the specific requirements of the magnetic field application.

Malamala
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Hello! I want to generate an RF magnetic field at variable frequencies (from 1 to 20 MHz) using this amplifier: https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=LZY-22+, by passing current through a loop of current (assume the inductive resistance is negligible). How should I proceed in practice? Can i directly connect the loop to the RF amplifier? Should I add a 50 Ohm in series? Thank you!
 
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Malamala said:
Can i directly connect the loop to the RF amplifier?
It sounds like you can, it says it's protected from opens and shorts and is unconditionally stable. But it will work better with an impedance transformer to better match the very low load impedance to the 50ohm output. It's not clear how much current you'll get out of it when it's output is shorted, like most RF stuff it's only specified at 50ohms. Why don't you ask the guys that make it?

OTOH, if you get enough current with a 50ohm series resistor, then I'd do that, the amplifier will be happier and it's easy to understand.

Also, at 20MHz a 50ohm inductor is only 400nH (not really a short circuit), so a reactive matching network (Smith Charts etc.) would be the best because of the wide bandwidth. You'll need to understand your load impedance to do this right.
 
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DaveE said:
It sounds like you can, it says it's protected from opens and shorts and is unconditionally stable. But it will work better with an impedance transformer to better match the very low load impedance to the 50ohm output. It's not clear how much current you'll get out of it when it's output is shorted, like most RF stuff it's only specified at 50ohms. Why don't you ask the guys that make it?

OTOH, if you get enough current with a 50ohm series resistor, then I'd do that, the amplifier will be happier and it's easy to understand.

Also, at 20MHz a 50ohm inductor is only 400nH (not really a short circuit), so a reactive matching network (Smith Charts etc.) would be the best because of the wide bandwidth. You'll need to understand your load impedance to do this right.
I actually checked it carefully and in my case ##X_L = 10 \Omega##. If I connect the loop directly, and I want to compute the current through the loop, should I then divide the applied voltage by this 10 Ohm? or does the amplifier has an extra 50 ohms internally so i need to divide by 50 + 10 = 60?
 
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Malamala said:
I actually checked it carefully and in my case ##X_L = 10 \Omega##. If I connect the loop directly, and I want to compute the current through the loop, should I then divide the applied voltage by this 10 Ohm? or does the amplifier has an extra 50 ohms internally so i need to divide by 50 + 10 = 60?
It's hard for me to believe your load is constant 10 ohms from 100KHz to 20MHz, but whatever. Yes the amplifier will have a 50 ohm output impedance.
 
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DaveE said:
It's hard for me to believe your load is constant 10 ohms from 100KHz to 20MHz
That does not make sense to me as well. @Malamala -- can you show us the calculation for this?
 
Malamala said:
I actually checked it carefully and in my case XL=10Ω.
Sounds like a 4:1 balun would get you pretty close to a match then.

PS: or is that 1:4? I'll never get that part right, LOL.
 
Malamala said:
How should I proceed in practice?
Practice will be decided by your application's requirements.

You want a magnetic field, but have not specified the "spatial volume" or the "flatness" of that field within the excited volume. Will the test chamber be the volume of a matchbox, or a parking garage?

Why are you doing this? What you place in the excited volume, may change the field. Will the sample absorb RF energy?

Will the frequency be fixed for each experiment, or will the signal be wideband, or swept across the HF band? How will you prevent radiation of unwanted RF from the excited volume?

You could make a resonant cavity, a transmission line, a waveguide structure, or use Helmholtz coils. Some form of amplitude regulation will be needed to stabilise the magnetic field. I expect you will need some form of impedance matching tuner, maybe an automatic HF antenna tuner, to match the generator to the excited volume.
 
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Baluncore said:
an automatic HF antenna tuner
Great suggestion!

Still, you've jumped to the advanced level. This guy isn't there yet. Plus we don't know what he really wants out of this thing.
 
The amplifier is able to operate into any load safely, and has ample power available, so i would try a direct connection first.
 
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In principle, the coil can be made to present an impedance of 50 Ohms resistive by using two capacitors. The actual loss resistance of the coil is unfortunately not easy to ascertain by calculation but could be measured.
 
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DaveE said:
Still, you've jumped to the advanced level. This guy isn't there yet.
The LZY-22+ costs US$2219. That is the advanced level.

We have no idea who might later find this thread with a Google search, hopefully they will benefit from my general answer.
 

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