Ricci tensor of the orthogonal space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of a specific equation related to the Ricci tensor in the context of orthogonal spaces, particularly focusing on the application of the Gauss embedding equation and Ricci identities. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in both four-dimensional and two-dimensional spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in deriving a result from an article, suggesting that their confusion stems from understanding the hints related to the Gauss embedding equation and Ricci identities.
  • Another participant confirms that the Gauss equation referenced is indeed the one found in the Wikipedia article, which connects the Riemann tensor of a surface to its second fundamental form.
  • A suggestion is made to consult specific references by Ehlers and Ellis to clarify the relationship between the equations discussed.
  • A participant acknowledges their oversight in forgetting some terms, leading to discrepancies in their expressions, and expresses gratitude for the references provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relevance of the Gauss equation and the suggested references, but the initial participant's derivation remains unresolved, indicating ongoing uncertainty in their understanding.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the application of the Gauss embedding equation and the Ricci identities, as well as the need for careful attention to detail in mathematical derivations.

PLuz
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While reading this article I got stuck with Eq.(54). I've been trying to derive it but I can't get their result. I believe my problem is in understanding their hints. They say that they get the result from the Gauss embedding equation and the Ricci identities for the 4-velocity, u^a. Is the Gauss equation they refer the one in the wiki article?

Looking at the terms that appear in their equation it looks like the Raychaudhuri equation is to be used in the derivation in order to get the density and the cosmological constant, but even though I realize this I can't really get their result.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thank you very much

Note:The reason why I'm trying so hard to prove their result is because I wanted to know if it would still be valid if the orthogonal space were 2 dimensional (aside some constants). It appears to be the case but to be sure I needed to be able to prove it.
 
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Yes, the Gauss equation that they're referring to is the same Gauss equation mentioned in the Wikipedia article, relating the Riemann tensor of a surface to its second fundamental form. The second fundamental form, in turn, describes the embedding of the surface and can be expressed in terms of the kinematics of the normal congruence.

If you haven't already, I suggest you look up the cited articles, refs 5 and 6 by Ehlers and Ellis, where this relationship is proved.
 
Bill_K said:
If you haven't already, I suggest you look up the cited articles, refs 5 and 6 by Ehlers and Ellis, where this relationship is proved.

I agree with Bill. This kind of "legwork" should be almost second nature. Another place to look is section 6.3 "The other Einstein field equations" in the new book "Relativistic Cosmology" by Ellis, Maartens, and MacCallum,

http://www.physicstoday.org/resource/1/phtoad/v66/i4/p54_s1
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I just saw my error. I was forgetting some terms and in the end the expressions were obviously different. Thank you for the references, I had taken a quick look at them but, clearly, I had to read them with more attention...
 

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