Riemann Curvature Tensor on 2D Sphere: Surprising Results

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the Riemann curvature tensor on a 2D sphere, particularly focusing on the surprising results regarding the dependence of certain components on the polar angle, theta. Participants explore the implications of these results and the role of coordinate systems in interpreting curvature.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that ##R^\theta_{\phi\theta\phi} = \sin^2(\theta)## and expresses surprise that the curvature tensor tends to zero at the poles, questioning the uniformity of curvature on the sphere.
  • Another participant asserts that ##R^\phi{}_{\theta\phi\theta} = -1## and suggests checking the algebra of the first participant.
  • A participant summarizes the issue, questioning how non-zero components of the curvature tensor can depend on theta, noting that while the sphere is symmetric, the coordinates are not, leading to non-constant tensor components.
  • One participant adds that the non-isotropic nature of the coordinate system used contributes to the differing appearances of the curvature tensor at various points on the sphere.
  • A later reply indicates that using a unit basis instead of a coordinate basis would eliminate the dependence on theta, acknowledging the impact of the chosen basis on the results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the curvature tensor's components and whether the observed dependence on theta is surprising or expected based on the coordinate system used. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these results.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the symmetry of the sphere does not extend to the coordinate system, which affects the representation of the curvature tensor. The discussion highlights the importance of the choice of basis in understanding the curvature properties.

epovo
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TL;DR
How is it possible that non-zero components of the curvature tensor depend on theta
I have worked out (and then verified against some sources) that ##R^\theta_{\phi\theta\phi} = sin^2(\theta)##. The rest of the components are either zero or the same as ##R^\theta_{\phi\theta\phi} ## some with the sign flipped.
I was surprised at this, because it implies that the curvature tensor tends to zero as we approach either pole. Being a sphere I thought that the curvature tensor would have the same value everywhere. How can this be?
 
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According to my calculations, ##R^\phi{}_{\theta\phi\theta}=-1##. I'd check your algebra.
 
epovo said:
Summary:: How is it possible that non-zero components of the curvature tensor depend on theta

Being a sphere I thought that the curvature tensor would have the same value everywhere. How can this be?
Because of the symmetry all of the invariants of the tensor must have the same value everywhere. But the coordinates are not symmetrical, so the components of the tensor in those coordinates may be non-constant.
 
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To add to my last, the coordinate system you are using isn't isotropic so it shouldn't be particularly surprising that the curvature tensor "looks" different at different places on the sphere. A small circular path around the pole has a very different description in these coordinates (constant ##\theta##) than the same path around an arbitrary point. (Edit: beaten to it by Dale, I see.)

You would expect any scalar you can construct from the Riemann tensor (for example ##R^{abcd}R_{abcd}##, or ##R^{ab}R_{ab}##) to be independent of coordinates. Also, if you can find a transform to move the pole to an arbitrary point, then you should be able to use this to transform the Riemann at one point/basis on the sphere to the Riemann at any other point.
 
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I see. If I had used unit basis instead of the usual coordinate basis I would not get this dependence on theta. Thanks!
 
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