Rod Bearing Load Estimate for 90 ft-lbs Torque Starter Motor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the load on rod bearings when a starter motor with a torque of 90 ft-lbs stalls. Participants explore the implications of starter motor torque, piston movement, and cylinder pressure during the starting process of an engine, particularly focusing on the calculations and assumptions involved in determining bearing loads.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates that the load on the rod bearing could reach 61,703 PSI based on their torque and geometry assumptions, questioning the validity of this high load.
  • Another participant suggests that the stall condition should not assume infinite compression ratio, indicating that maximum cylinder pressure limits bearing pressure.
  • Some participants argue that the stall is more commonly due to ignition before TDC, which complicates the load calculations.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential for stripping teeth from the flywheel under high loads.
  • Discussion includes the idea that higher torque starters may not solve the problem if the engine is already incurring damage at lower torque levels.
  • One participant proposes that the load on the bearings is the lesser of the starter torque and the cylinder pressure times the piston area.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to consider the crank advantage and the dynamics of the engine at TDC, suggesting that previous calculations may overlook critical factors.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the initial calculations and propose alternative methods for estimating the torque needed to turn the engine against compression.
  • There is a suggestion to analyze the situation closer to TDC to better understand the forces at play.
  • One participant presents a table of torque requirements at various degrees of crank rotation, indicating a need for further verification of their findings.
  • Another participant questions how compression could cause a starter motor to stall, suggesting that the torque requirements may be lower than initially thought.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the calculations or the assumptions made regarding the loads on the rod bearings. Multiple competing views remain regarding the effects of starter torque, cylinder pressure, and the dynamics of the engine during starting.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the initial calculations, including assumptions about crank advantage and the need to consider dynamic factors such as oil film expulsion and elastic compression of components. The discussion remains open to further analysis and verification of the proposed models.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to automotive engineers, mechanics, and enthusiasts involved in engine design and performance analysis, particularly those focused on starter motor applications and bearing load estimations.

  • #31
A “comparative novice speedfreek†or a computer chip “over-clocker†is NOT an engineer.

They are individuals abusing the technology.
They have no concept of reliability engineering.
They are pushing beyond the SOE to destruction.

Economics and reliability are critical to engineering.

I agree with you 100%
My aim here is to quantify the possible bearing loads in the aforementioned scenario to point out the folly of such engine modifications. Knowing the torque of the starter motor, I suspect it will depend on on 3 more things; location of spark BTC, cranking speed, & the time interval from spark to combustion. If anyone has insight into that last item, (or the characteristics of the combustion process with regard to this) please contribute.
 

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