News Roots of Middle-Eastern Terrorism

[Dissident Dan]

"...A review by Heritage analysts of several years of voting records in the U.N. and U.S. foreign aid spending habits indicates that foreign aid has little impact, if any, on winning support among recipients for U.S. policy initiatives in the U.N. In fact, most recipients of U.S. foreign aid vote against the United States more often than they vote with it. "

http://www.heritage.org/Research/TradeandForeignAid/BG1186.cfm

In 1997 the second largest recipient of US foreign aid was Egypt ($2.1 billion), which subsequently voted against the US 66% of the time. The fourth largest recipient was Jordan, and they voted against us 67% of the time. We gave $144 million to India, and they voted against us 80% of the time.

So tell me again how the US will be more loved if we only gave these countries more money?

Firstly, voting against us isn't necessarily a sign of hatred. That said, ther is a lot of animosity in these countries against us. Of course, you can't just view aid as if it exists in a vaccuum. You can't give money to Egypt and Jordan and bomb neighboring Islamic countries and expect them to love you. All the beliefs that were laid out in the excerpt that I quoted and the beliefs expressed by devious_ counter aid. They see the invasion of Iraq, the sanctions against Iraq, the support of Israel (which they view to be oppressive against Muslims and Arabs), and the puppeteering of some of the Arab governments as major problems. Giving them $2 billion isn't going to make up for that. I think that a whole paradigm change is necessary.

Also, monetary aid is definitely a large component of what I suggestd, but it has to be put to good use, and when it is obviously beneficial, we need to have our name visibily attached to it.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Firstly, voting against us isn't necessarily a sign of hatred. That said, ther is a lot of animosity in these countries against us.

But it sure doesn't stop them from taking our money, does it? Sounds like they are playing us for suckers.

Of course, you can't just view aid as if it exists in a vaccuum. You can't give money to Egypt and Jordan and bomb neighboring Islamic countries and expect them to love you.

If they don't appreciate $2 billion, then why are we giving them $2 billion?

All the beliefs that were laid out in the excerpt that I quoted and the beliefs expressed by devious_ counter aid. They see the invasion of Iraq, the sanctions against Iraq, the support of Israel (which they view to be oppressive against Muslims and Arabs), and the puppeteering of some of the Arab governments as major problems. Giving them $2 billion isn't going to make up for that.

Except the stats were from 1997, after we invaded Iraq with their support and applied sanctions to Iraq with their support.

Looks like we didn't get much bang for the buck.

 

[balkan]

But it sure doesn't stop them from taking our money, does it? Sounds like they are playing us for suckers.

If they don't appreciate $2 billion, then why are we giving them $2 billion?

Except the stats were from 1997, after we invaded Iraq with their support and applied sanctions to Iraq with their support.

Looks like we didn't get much bang for the buck.

what the **** does those votes have to do with anything? it's not a bribe! it's an aid! it is supposed to be for non-personal interests! you didn't proove **** that they hate the usa, you just proved that they are capable of thinking on their own... way to go...
and it's funny, how your government seems to disagree with you:
http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=AB760623-D902-4C23-9242676D009F57B5&title=Continued%20US%20Aid%20to%20Egypt%20%27No%20Surprise%27%20to%20Analyst&catOID=45C9C78D-88AD-11D4-A57200A0CC5EE46C&categoryname=Mideast
note how 2/3'rd of the aid is military and not financial also...

 

[russ_watters]

Ironic how the same fact, stated two different ways has vastly different implications:

-The United States gives more money than any other country in foreign aid.
-The United States gives less money than most other countries in foreign aid (per capita).

Of course, people who give the second version of the fact usually leave out the part in parethases, changing the meaning of the sentence...

 

[balkan]

Ironic how the same fact, stated two different ways has vastly different implications:

-The United States gives more money than any other country in foreign aid.
-The United States gives less money than most other countries in foreign aid (per capita).

Of course, people who give the second version of the fact usually leave out the part in parethases, changing the meaning of the sentence...

i really don't see the irony, as it is a matter of percentages...

 

[JohnDubYa]

what the **** does those votes have to do with anything? it's not a bribe! it's an aid!

It was stated that such aid (or whatever you choose to call it) would help make them like us. If they really do like us, they have a strange way of displaying it.

 

[Dissident Dan]

You can like people and disagree with them.

Anyway, I would like to bring attention these previous posts:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=260058&postcount=32

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=260078&postcount=34

I think that they provide insight into why Arab Muslims are angry with the USA. I am not making any claims as to whether or not their anger is justified or that their appraisals of the situations are correct, but I think that it is necessary to see and appreciate what their gripes are in order to resolve conflict.

 

[JohnDubYa]

I was watching Al Jazeera last Sunday, and they had rap videos from Dubai. They are almost identical to those they show in the States. Same hand gestures, postures, camera-mugging... everything. And the lyrics sounded the same, even though they were in Arabic. (Although I can't imagine what the lyrics would be, as my wife wasn't there to translate.)

I guess that's our fault too. Heh.

 

[kat]

I have a hard time figuring out which portions of the first post are direct quotes of the waiter and which are comments from Toeinsing. Either way, one of them have their facts screwed up. If it's Toeinsing, he then he's distorting the reasons for the waiters response. If it's the waiter who is making the fact and figure statements, I would say he's the victim of propaganda.

 

[balkan]

I was watching Al Jazeera last Sunday, and they had rap videos from Dubai. They are almost identical to those they show in the States. Same hand gestures, postures, camera-mugging... everything. And the lyrics sounded the same, even though they were in Arabic. (Although I can't imagine what the lyrics would be, as my wife wasn't there to translate.)

I guess that's our fault too. Heh.

you bastards! now you've done it!

 

[Dissident Dan]

I have a hard time figuring out which portions of the first post are direct quotes of the waiter and which are comments from Toeinsing. Either way, one of them have their facts screwed up. If it's Toeinsing, he then he's distorting the reasons for the waiters response. If it's the waiter who is making the fact and figure statements, I would say he's the victim of propaganda.

Unless it was in quotation marks, it wasn't a direct quote. Most of it is Toensing's paraphrasing of what the waiter said (Toensing may have taken the liberty of elaborating with specific statistics; I am not sure). Of course, when the book reads, "A UNICEF study in 1999 backed him up," Toensing is the one speaking.

Which facts are screwed up?

I think that they definitely are victims of propoganda over there (especially in Palestine and Jerusalem), as I have mentioned in previous posts. I think that that is something that we should be aware of, both to try to diminish it and to try to predict how things will be spun. We should also acknowledge that not everything that we have done has had the best effects. I also think that not everything we've done has been done with good intentions.