Saw in the Papers: Air Conditioner Ad

[rollingstein]

The ad says: "5 Years Warranty on Compressor, 1 Year Warranty on Main Unit"

Nice so far. Next the ad says:

"Not Covered in Warranty Plastic and Rubber Parts, Lamp, Interconnecting Cable, Rubber Pads for Remote Control, Interconnecting Copper Tube, Aesthetic Parts, Condenser Coil, Evaporator Coil and Stabilizer"

Ummm...what exactly remains. Basically are they only warrantying the compressor?

How can you have so many exclusions? Excluding the evaporator + condenser + copper / plastic / rubber is like excluding 90% of the AC.

 

[Borek]

That's the trick. You have warranty so you can mention it in the ad (good for marketing) but the fine print renders it obsolete (good for profits).

 

[nitsuj]

In turn some governments have "Consumer Protection" acts.

 

[dlgoff]

"Not Covered in Warranty Plastic and Rubber Parts, Lamp, Interconnecting Cable, Rubber Pads for Remote Control, Interconnecting Copper Tube, Aesthetic Parts, Condenser Coil, Evaporator Coil and Stabilizer"

So what could go wrong with these items other than taking a hammer to them? The compressor is the important part.

 

[SteamKing]

So what could go wrong with these items other than taking a hammer to them? The compressor is the important part.

Yeah, but copper tubing, condenser coils, and evaporator coils have all been known to fail, even on unhammered units.

The compressor is probably the most expensive part, but the unit still won't work too well with a functional compressor and a shot condenser or evaporator coil.

 

[dlgoff]

Yeah, but copper tubing, condenser coils, and evaporator coils have all been known to fail, even on unhammered units.

Any references as to the statistics? I've only experienced a few freon leaks over the years and never anything from these parts failing that required much down time.

 

[SteamKing]

Any references as to the statistics? I've only experienced a few freon leaks over the years and never anything from these parts failing that required much down time.

You've been lucky then.

I'm sure the various A/C vendors have failure statistics for various parts, but I doubt they make this information available to the public. It would be instant fodder for their competitors advertisements.

 

[dlgoff]

You've been lucky then.

You could be right. Maybe russ_watters will chime in. I'm sure he has much more experience than me.

 

[russ_watters]

Logically, I would agree that the moving parts are the ones that fail, but I'm an engineer, not a technician, so I don't have a ton of hands-on experience with failures. But yeah, as long as it covers the compressor and fan, I'd probably be ok with it. Most of the other parts are things that are wear parts (lamp, plastic pads) or parts that would be difficult to make fail without abusing them (coils/tubing).

It's similar to a car, who's warranty mostly covers the drivetrain.

 

[rollingstein]

Logically, I would agree that the moving parts are the ones that fail, but I'm an engineer, not a technician, so I don't have a ton of hands-on experience with failures. But yeah, as long as it covers the compressor and fan, I'd probably be ok with it. Most of the other parts are things that are wear parts (lamp, plastic pads) or parts that would be difficult to make fail without abusing them (coils/tubing).

I'm no AC-tech either but from what I've read gas leaks are common. Not sure if through the ferrules or other places. Corrosion is another common problem I've seen reported by AC techs. Which is why some AC techs recommend copper coils since those can be brazed. On other MOCs replacing the whole coil is often needed.

Another modern malady is circuit board failures.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

I had a condenser problem recently, though my A.C has been 10 years old.
The repairing guy changed the condenser for Rs 500 , around 8 $. Is it too much in U.S?

 

[Astronuc]

"Not Covered in Warranty Plastic and Rubber Parts, Lamp, Interconnecting Cable, Rubber Pads for Remote Control, Interconnecting Copper Tube, Aesthetic Parts, Condenser Coil, Evaporator Coil and Stabilizer"

Stuff that will wear out quickly, or be damaged, would not be warrantied.

The compressor, like a drive train in a vehicle, is expected to last a certain lifetime (service life), and the majority of failures (due to wear and tear) would be expected to occur after the warranty period. The manufacturer/seller is taking calculated risk that the estimated service life is properly determined.

 

[russ_watters]

Corrosion is another common problem I've seen reported by AC techs..

Corrosion is definitely not something that should be covered by a warranty. It falls under the category of abuse.

Another modern malady is circuit board failures.

True - my refrigerator's controller failed.

 

[rollingstein]

Corrosion is definitely not something that should be covered by a warranty. It falls under the category of abuse.

Corrosion does not always imply abuse. I think.

It could be bad material choice. Under-design. Unreasonably low corrosion allowances. Poor machining / welding practices. Incompatible materials in contact. Surface coating inconsistencies .

 

[nitsuj]

So what could go wrong with these items other than taking a hammer to them? The compressor is the important part.

That'd be a two-way street; Why not just included them in the warranty if that's the case?

 

[russ_watters]

Corrosion does not always imply abuse. I think.

Eventually, everything will corrode, but it will corrode faster if abused or simply if used in an unusual environment.

It could be bad material choice. Under-design. Unreasonably low corrosion allowances. Poor machining / welding practices. Incompatible materials in contact. Surface coating inconsistencies.

True, but if a unit was so crappy to begin with, you wouldn't want to buy it in the first place. Most of the time, a warranty is there to protect you from a construction defect, not a fundamentally flawed product.

 

[russ_watters]

That'd be a two-way street; Why not just included them in the warranty if that's the case?

Um...no, that's not a two-way street. That's exactly why you don't include them in the warranty: Because people do abuse things, which means the company will have to pay for damage that isn't their fault if they include those things in the warranty.

 

[rollingstein]

True, but if a unit was so crappy to begin with, you wouldn't want to buy it in the first place.

I'm not sure if some of these things would be easy to tell for a customer.

In my opinion, one of the reasons a warranty exists is to assuage the customer's worry that he isn't knowledgeable enough to verify every functional attribute of the product.

The warranty in essence says, "Look you don't have to verify if I used a piston large enough to handle the load. If it breaks any time soon I will replace it for you"

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not sure if some of these things would be easy to tell for a customer.

In my opinion, one of the reasons a warranty exists is to assuage the customer's worry that he isn't knowledgeable enough to verify every functional attribute of the product.

The warranty in essence says, "Look you don't have to verify if I used a piston large enough to handle the load. If it breaks any time soon I will replace it for you"

I prefer 3rd party reviews to trusting the company, regardless of what they say they'll do for you.

 

[rollingstein]

Because people do abuse things, which means the company will have to pay for damage that isn't their fault if they include those things in the warranty.

Conversely, manufacturers do know that certain components are prone to failure or cash cows for their service departments & hence exclude those from warranties.

I guess I'm not objecting to the exclusions, more the deceptive advertising in it. e.g. They mention the "1 year warranty on main unit" so in this particular case I wonder what in the main unit is left to warranty?

 

[jim hardy]

Ummm...what exactly remains. Basically are they only warrantying the compressor?

How can you have so many exclusions? Excluding the evaporator + condenser + copper / plastic / rubber is like excluding 90% of the AC.

I think they're warranty-ing the sealed freon circuit. If it gets unsealed because somebody crushed a tube , it's not their fault.

I've had two fridges fail.
A GE model that turned out to have known internal corrosion problems quit after 4 years, plugged a freon line. i guess some impurities got left inside at manufacture. Local GE dealer put in a whole new freon system, compressor evaporator and condenser at no cost to me... He said "GE knows about this model."
A Sears compressor that'd always run hot seized up with just six hours left on warranty - whew. I'll always think it had too little lubricant put in at manufacture, but don't really know. Serviceman put in a good charge of oil with the new compressor. It's still going now eleven years later.

 

[nitsuj]

Um...no, that's not a two-way street. That's exactly why you don't include them in the warranty: Because people do abuse things, which means the company will have to pay for damage that isn't their fault if they include those things in the warranty.

Then that would be abuse, why would they cover abuse with the warranty?

I never said they should cover abuse.

 

[edward]

As far as the OP. Is this a widow unit? The plastic components can be easily broken in handling and installation. I notice that the items not covered got right down to the rubber pads on the remote. They really have themselves covered. Unfortunately that is a sign of the times. Your best bet is to find an online list of brand reliability. Another sign of the times is that most of those lists now usually require a subscription.

Edit this website has ratings, but only on a limited number of units. The Small GE window units are made in China. The LG models are made in Korea.

http://www.consumersearch.com/central-air-conditioners

 

[rollingstein]

As far as the OP. Is this a widow unit?

Nope. A split.

 

[russ_watters]

Then that would be abuse, why would they cover abuse with the warranty?

I never said they should cover abuse.

They wouldn't cover abuse, which is why they don't cover items that generally don't fail unless they are abused. It sounds like you think they can tell or ask if part has been abused before deciding if they will cover it. That isn't how warranties typically work. For the most part, they are no-questions-asked because it is difficult to tell.

 

[edward]

Nope. A split.

Is it full remote split with the evaporator above or below a furnace blower, or a ductless mini split with the condensing unit and evaporator on opposite sides of a wall.?

Most name brand full split units now come with a 10 year compressor and 6 year parts warranty. What is the brand name?

 

[rollingstein]

Is it full remote split with the evaporator above or below a furnace blower, or a ductless mini split with the condensing unit and evaporator on opposite sides of a wall.?

The latter.

The brand's Carrier.

 

[edward]

The latter.

The brand's Carrier.

On the carrier split system the compressor warranty is usually 7 years unless the buyer is living in an apartment or rental. Then it is five. Newspaper ads can be very misleading.

Here is the link to Carrier.

http://dms.hvacpartners.com//docs/1009/Public/09/49004DP138_A.pdf

 

[rollingstein]

On the carrier split system the compressor warranty is usually 7 years unless the buyer is living in an apartment or rental. Then it is five. Newspaper ads can be very misleading.

Interesting.

Does anyone know why warranties for an apartment installed unit are shorter?

 

[russ_watters]

Does anyone know why warranties for an apartment installed unit are shorter?

Not sure, but following the logic of the thread, I'd guess because they are more likely to be abused than ones in houses.