Schwarzschild radius and curvature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Schwarzschild radius and its relationship to curvature in the context of the Schwarzschild spacetime, which is a vacuum solution of the Einstein field equations. Participants explore the implications of the Schwarzschild radius in terms of curvature and the geometric properties of the manifold, focusing on differential geometry and the nature of spatial and temporal components in this specific metric.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the Schwarzschild spacetime as having curvature determined by a constant of integration related to mass, suggesting that the Schwarzschild radius (r_s) represents a curvature radius of a parabolic hypersurface in the manifold.
  • Another participant notes that the coordinate r is related to Gaussian curvature, indicating a connection between r_s and intrinsic curvature in a spherically symmetric manifold.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the relationship between the Schwarzschild radius and Gaussian curvature, with one recalling that the curvature of a spherically symmetric 3-space is determined by its Gaussian curvature.
  • There is a discussion about the dependence of spatial and temporal parts of spacetime on coordinate choice, with a participant asserting that there is no objective distinction between these parts.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the Schwarzschild radius can be identified with the minimum Gaussian curvature produced by a central mass, while noting that the total radius of curvature depends on the distance from the mass.
  • One participant seeks confirmation or correction from those knowledgeable in Riemannian geometry regarding their understanding of these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the Schwarzschild radius and curvature, with some proposing connections while others remain uncertain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the relationships involved and the potential for differing interpretations based on coordinate choices and the nature of the metric. There are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical steps and definitions used in the discussion.

TrickyDicky
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In the Schwarzschild spacetime setting we have a vacuum solution of the Einstein field equations, that is an idealized universe without any matter at the geodesics that are solutions of the equations.
This spacetime has however a curvature in both the temporal and spatial component that comes determined by a constant of integration of the metric (\alpha) and that in the Newtonian limit is a function of mass, so that we can introduce a central mass parameter in order to solve problems such as Mercury preccession,etc. This is also known as Schwarzschild radius (r_s= 2GM/c^2), because it basically gives us a geometrized mass(x2 factor since we are at the Newtonian limit), a mass in terms of length.
If all this is basically correct, wouldn't follow from it that the r_s is a precisely the curvature radius of the 3-space parabolic hypersurface in the Schwarzschild manifold?
 
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Not quite sure what you are getting at but the coordinate r does relate to the Gaussian curvature.
 
Passionflower said:
Not quite sure what you are getting at but the coordinate r does relate to the Gaussian curvature.

Sure, the coordinate r is a function of Gaussian curvature and radial distance, here I'm referring to the fact that in a spherically symmetric manifold like this one,the r_s that appears in the metric sometimes a 2\mu or 2m or 2GM/c^2 related to the idealized central mass seems to be precisely the intrinsic Gaussian curvature of the spatial part of the Schwarzschild manifold, (I seem to recall the curvature of a 3-space that is spherically symmetric is completely determined by its Gaussian curvature, maybe someone confirm it).
 
TrickyDicky said:
Sure, the coordinate r is a function of Gaussian curvature and radial distance, here I'm referring to the fact that in a spherically symmetric manifold like this one,the r_s that appears in the metric sometimes a 2\mu or 2m or 2GM/c^2 related to the idealized central mass seems to be precisely the intrinsic Gaussian curvature of the spatial part of the Schwarzschild manifold, (I seem to recall the curvature of a 3-space that is spherically symmetric is completely determined by its Gaussian curvature, maybe someone confirm it).
What consists of the spatial and temporal part of any spacetime solely depends on the choice of coordinates. There is no such thing as an objective spatial and temporal part of spacetime.
 
Passionflower said:
What consists of the spatial and temporal part of any spacetime solely depends on the choice of coordinates. There is no such thing as an objective spatial and temporal part of spacetime.

I'm centering on the usual line element for Schwarzschild vacuum solution. I'm not interested here in the real/unreal debate, it's just a simple question about differential geometry for a certain metric.
 
TrickyDicky said:
If all this is basically correct, wouldn't follow from it that the r_s is a precisely the curvature radius of the 3-space parabolic hypersurface in the Schwarzschild manifold?

More specifically I would say that the r_s (2m) in the Schwarzschild line element
ds^2=(1-\frac{2m}{r})dt^2-\frac{dr^2}{1-\frac{2m}{r}}-d\Omega^2
could be identified with the minimum Gaussian curvature (IOW the maximum curvature K) a specific central mass can produce in a Schwarzschild manifold. The total radius of curvature would of course depend on where we locate the test particle, that is, on the total distance from the central mass, so that at the limit at infinity of r the metric becomes Minkowski.
I'm not sure if I got this right, maybe someone knowledgeable in Riemannian geometry could confirm or correct?
 

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