Searching for a string explanation

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String theory is a theoretical framework that attempts to unify all fundamental interactions, including gravity, by replacing point particles with one-dimensional strings. It posits the existence of multiple dimensions, with some proponents suggesting up to 32 dimensions to accommodate its complex mathematical structure. Critics argue that string theory lacks empirical evidence and is overly abstract, while proponents maintain it provides a detailed mathematical model capable of making experimental predictions. The discussion also touches on alternative theories, such as Loop Quantum Gravity, and critiques the foundational assumptions of modern physics, particularly the concept of point particles. Ultimately, the debate highlights the ongoing search for a coherent understanding of the universe's fundamental nature.
  • #91
Originally posted by subtillioN

That is what I thought. You ARE attacking it because my statements are correct within its framework about which you are ignorant. They simply don't make sense without the proper background, but does tht stop you from assuming that you understand them? Nope, you continue to make your ignorant assumptions.

Do you have difficulty reading as well? I've never once mentioned this little theory you're promoting. I've only criticized your pretending to understand the theories you're attacking.

I know what GR says space is and it does not have the properties required to explain the mechanism of gravity. Therefore I equate it with a mathematical abstraction which is not equivalent to a physical field, thus it is nothingness despite what GR claims it is.

You don't know the equations, and you aren't familiar with the concept of a field, you don't understand the physical meaning of curved spacetime having an effect on geodesics, yet you somehow are able to pass it off as a mere abstraction.

I know geometry and the concept of continuous is quite basic indeed.

Then how do you explain your last statement? First of all, relativistic spacetime is not made of points. It is a continuous field.... From basic geometry, we've learned that volumes contain an infinite number of points. A continuous space is not discrete, but that hardly discounts the fact that it contains points.

It was your point that the em fields are "local" and independent of the expansion of space.

Now you're making stuff up. And at any rate, your claim was that the theory arbitrarily says that some fields are independent of "spacetime" and others are not, showing once again you don't know what you're talking about.

Unlikely huh? Please do expand on that brilliant point.

Substances are results of atoms. There, that was easy.

It is simple stuff and I am not math illiterate as you assume.

Are you now claiming that you have studied and understand Non-Euclidean geometry? Sounds like an easy claim to test.

Neither am I. These descriptions of the "quantum vacuum" as a "zero-energy superfluid" are a standard part of condensed matter physics. Maye you have some learning to do?

I'd wager no serious particle physicist is actually suggesting the vacuum is actually a superfluid, nor does the comparison to the vacuum imply they are essentially the same thing as you put it. I'd further wager you're just pulling quotes from content you don't even understand. What else is new?
 
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  • #92
Originally posted by Eh
I've only criticized your pretending to understand the theories you're attacking.

You have made claims that you are attempting to justify

You don't know the equations, and you aren't familiar with the concept of a field, you don't understand the physical meaning of curved spacetime having an effect on geodesics, yet you somehow are able to pass it off as a mere abstraction.

You don't know what I know and what I don't know. Why are you still wasting your time with these personal attacks and why am I still defending myself?

Mathematics IS an abstraction. You believe that it is physical reality, that is where physics went wrong and where you blindly follow.

Then how do you explain your last statement? First of all, relativistic spacetime is not made of points. It is a continuous field.... From basic geometry, we've learned that volumes contain an infinite number of points. A continuous space is not discrete, but that hardly discounts the fact that it contains points.

An continuous field is simply not made of points. You are making the same mistake that Zeno made.


Now you're making stuff up. And at any rate, your claim was that the theory arbitrarily says that some fields are independent of "spacetime" and others are not, showing once again you don't know what you're talking about.

Showing only that you don't know what I am talking about.

Substances are results of atoms. There, that was easy.

That is the core error of physics. This error permeates the whole of physics this is why our pov's differ so drastically.


Are you now claiming that you have studied and understand Non-Euclidean geometry? Sounds like an easy claim to test.

I am claiming that I have a good enough understanding of what it is all about to know how it is used and abused in physics.


I'd wager no serious particle physicist is actually suggesting the vacuum is actually a superfluid, nor does the comparison to the vacuum imply they are essentially the same thing as you put it. I'd further wager you're just pulling quotes from content you don't even understand. What else is new?

You would be wrong.
 
  • #93
You have made claims that you are attempting to justify

He's past the attempt stage.


You don't know what I know and what I don't know. Why are you still wasting your time with these personal attacks and why am I still defending myself?

You haven't demonstrated that you know what you claim you know.


Mathematics IS an abstraction. You believe that it is physical reality, that is where physics went wrong and where you blindly follow.

You've gone wrong by presuming an abstraction is incapable of properly describing physical reality. You've also gone wrong by presuming science can do better than description.


An continuous field is simply not made of points. You are making the same mistake that Zeno made.

Your first statement is correct, but merely because of compensating errors. Fields are essentially functions over spaces which means the field is made of point-value pairs, not points. Spaces are made of points and can most certainly be continuous. It's trivially obvious to anyone who understands geometric concepts.


I am claiming that I have a good enough understanding of what it is all about to know how it is used and abused in physics.

You've merely claimed, not demonstrated, while we have well-refuted that claim. Anyways, Eh seems to have a particular test in mind for this one, I'll wait to see what he has to cook up on this point!
 
  • #94
Originally posted by Eh
I'd wager no serious particle physicist is actually suggesting the vacuum is actually a superfluid, nor does the comparison to the vacuum imply they are essentially the same thing as you put it. I'd further wager you're just pulling quotes from content you don't even understand. What else is new?

Note that the following papers have nothing to do with Sorce Theory except a broadly similar fluid-dynamic approach to modeling the fundamental level.



http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0005091

Superfluid 3He-A gives example of how chirality, Weyl fermions, gauge fields and gravity appear in low energy corner together with corresponding symmetries, including Lorentz symmetry and local SU(N). This supports idea that quantum field theory (Standard Model or GUT) is effective theory describing low-energy phenomena. * Momentum space topology of fermionic vacuum provides topological stability of universality class of systems, where above properties appear. * BCS scheme for 3He-A incorporates both ``relativistic'' infrared regime and ultraviolet ``transplanckian'' range: subtle issues of cut-off in quantum field theory and anomalies can be resolved on physical grounds. This allows to separate ``renormalizable'' terms in action, treated by effective theory, from those obtained only in ``transPlanckian'' physics. * Energy density of superfluid vacuum within effective theory is ~ E_{Planck}^4. Stability analysis of ground state beyond effective theory leads to exact nullification of vacuum energy: equilibrium vacuum is not gravitating. In nonequilibrium, vacuum energy is of order energy density of matter. * 3He-A provides experimental prove for anomalous nucleation of fermionic charge according to Adler-Bell-Jackiw. * Helical instability in 3He-A is described by the same equations as formation of magnetic field by right electrons in Joyce-Shaposhnikov scenario. * Macroscopic parity violating effect and angular momentum paradox are both desribed by axial gravitational Chern-Simons action. * High energy dispersion of quasiparticle spectrum allow to treat problems of vacuum in presence of event horizon, etc.


http://www.cet.sunderland.ac.uk/webedit/allweb/news/Philosophy_of_Science/ptaeth2.pdf


A PARTICLE-TIED AETHER
INDICATIONS OF A DEEPER FOUNDATION FOR PHYSICS AND RELATIVITY

Miles F. Osmaston, The White Cottage, Sendmarsh, Ripley, Woking,
Surrey GU23 6JT, UK. miles@osmaston.demon.co.uk Basic concepts. This contribution† is primarily about the transmission of transverse electromagnetic (TEM) waves, our principal source of physical information. Relativity, as its name implies, seeks to describe relationships between entities in various circumstances but
doesn't illuminate the nature of those entities, a gap that quantum electrodynamics and particle physics try to fill. A variety of well-observed phenomena, to be outlined below, appear inconsistent with this currently accepted framework of physics. It will be shown that these phenomena indicate the need for a physics framework that admits the occurrence of TEM-wave transmission effects, a factor explicitly denied in the conceptual basis of Special Relativity (SR). To help with these matters, a continuum (aether) theory (CT) of physical
nature is outlined in which particles are special, rather (but finitely) concentrated, mainly-rotational forms of disturbance of the continuum. Particle random motions imply random motion of the aether, and this affects the propagation of TEM waves by it. Under this
proposal particles are "made" of aether (originally a suggestion of Larmor, 1894), and the Michelson-Morley result is satisfied. The relativity principle, that nothing can exceed the local velocity of TEM waves, will be firmly retained but regarded as only strictly applicable at the smallest scale of physical nature - that of the local aether.
 
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  • #95
Originally posted by Hurkyl
You've gone wrong by presuming an abstraction is incapable of properly describing physical reality. You've also gone wrong by presuming science can do better than description.


You've gone wrong on both of your assumptions that I am assuming such silly things!

I am claiming quite the opposite!

I am saying that Physics (a description) can do better than its current languishing state! No more no less.

Good descriptions do not self-fossilize. They contain within tthem the seeds of change, i.e. the scientific method and falsification. Let's hope we can ressurect these neglected seeds!


Your first statement is correct, but merely because of compensating errors. Fields are essentially functions over spaces which means the field is made of point-value pairs, not points. Spaces are made of points and can most certainly be continuous. It's trivially obvious to anyone who understands geometric concepts.

I understand your basic geometric concepts, but they are misleading. A continuum is only described and addressed by points. It is not MADE out of them. That would be like saying that infinity is made out of numbers! The infinite is not made out of the finite. It is quite the inverse!


You've merely claimed, not demonstrated, while we have well-refuted that claim. Anyways, Eh seems to have a particular test in mind for this one, I'll wait to see what he has to cook up on this point!

Oh, the herd mentality of the mob!

Get em' boys!
 
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  • #96
A continuum is only described and addressed by points. It is not MADE out of them.

No, a continuum is "addressed" by coordinates; specifically the coordinates of each point of the continuum.


That would be like saying that infinity is made out of numbers!

An infinite set can most certainly be made out of numbers.


Oh, the herd mentality of the mob!

Get em' boys!

[?]
 
  • #97
Originally posted by Hurkyl
No, a continuum is "addressed" by coordinates; specifically the coordinates of each point of the continuum.


oh ok. point completely missed (no pun intended)




An infinite set can most certainly be made out of numbers.

an infinite set is finite, at best transfinite. a mere symbol...
 
  • #98
oh ok. point completely missed (no pun intended)

Are you admitting this, or are you trying to imply something?


an infinite set is finite, at best transfinite. a mere symbol...

[?]

Care to explain?
 
  • #99
Originally posted by Hurkyl
Are you admitting this, or are you trying to imply something?

I am implying something that resides outside the boundaries of mathematics...




[?]

Care to explain? [/B]

Mathematics is a symbol system. All symbol systems are finite. Mathematics represents infinity but it does not[/color] and cannot[/color] truly deal with the infinite.
 
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  • #100
Originally posted by Eh
Mitch,

Have a look at http://www.superstringtheory.com. The site has some nice tutorials on the basic ideas of the theory, and math is optional. It also has a very good forum (just ignore the spam bot kx21) where you can ask questions about aspects of the theory without crackpots hijacking your thread with their nonsense. Neat flash presentation of the big bang as well.

Thank you.

What is a spam bot kx21?
 
  • #101
Here is another quite interesting string-based theory.

http://www.mu6.com/



[[[ quite overly complex if you ask me...]]]
 
  • #102
I am implying something that resides outside the boundaries of mathematics...

How and why would something lie outside the boundaries of mathematics? And if something does, do you understand the ramifications that implies to a logical understanding of that something?


Mathematics is a symbol system. All symbol systems are finite. Mathematics represents infinity but it does not and cannot truly deal with the infinite.

You're making the same mistake Mr Parsons was making on the "infinity" thread.
 
  • #103
Originally posted by mitch bass
What is a spam bot kx21?
A spam bot is a computer applet that generates spam in chat rooms. Much like...ah, nevermind.
 
  • #104
Originally posted by Hurkyl
How and why would something lie outside the boundaries of mathematics?

pure hubris! do you think the thought systems of man are all that exist?

And if something does, do you understand the ramifications that implies to a logical understanding of that something?

physical reality lies outside the realm of mathematics and logic, but it can be understood logically AND mathematically...to an extent.

what ramifications? A system of thought is an approximation of reality. It can never be absolutely complete.


You're making the same mistake Mr Parsons was making on the "infinity" thread.

Nope. Quite different actually. Mr.P said that we cannot even think about infinity. I am saying that we can easily think about it and understand it but we cannot actually use it or properly deal with it in our thoughts. This is simply because the mind and all its symbol systems are finite. There is a subtle but important distinction here if you can grasp it.
 
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  • #105
Originally posted by mitch bass
Thank you.

What is a spam bot kx21?

There is a poster on the forums there by the name kx21 who apparently created a bot that posts various links to articles, websites and such to the boards. If you post something there, you may get an automated response from the bot with a link to something irrelevant. Just ignore it. Sadly, the moderators have done nothing about this bot and the forum archives are looking quite silly because of it.
 
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  • #106
Originally posted by russ_watters
A spam bot is a computer applet that generates spam in chat rooms. Much like...ah, nevermind.

. A bot that gets no responses will usually be deactivated, sooner or later.
 
  • #107
Originally posted by Eh
. A bot that gets no responses will usually be deactivated, sooner or later.

we can only hope...right? :wink:
 
  • #108
-- TWO MINUTE WARNING TO GET THIS TOPIC BACK ON TRACK --
 
  • #109
Originally posted by Phobos
-- TWO MINUTE WARNING TO GET THIS TOPIC BACK ON TRACK --
What makes you think that's the goal here? :wink:
 

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