Second Order DE - Need Help With Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a second-order differential equation (DE) with constant coefficients. Participants explore various methods for finding both the homogeneous and particular solutions, including the method of variation of parameters and substitution techniques. The conversation includes attempts to clarify steps and approaches in the solution process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in completing part (c) of a problem involving a second-order DE.
  • Another suggests solving the homogeneous equation first and then finding a particular solution, mentioning the use of Laplace Transform as an alternative.
  • A participant shares their homogeneous solution and describes their attempt to find a particular solution using a complex form of the equation, indicating they are stuck.
  • Multiple participants discuss the method of variation of parameters, outlining the approach and equations involved, but some express confusion about its application.
  • There is a question about whether a specific substitution for the particular solution is appropriate, with references to the need for adjustments based on the characteristic polynomial.
  • Another participant expresses a preference for the variation of parameters method, describing its simplicity once the basis of the solution space is established.
  • A later reply attempts to derive coefficients for the particular solution by equating terms, leading to a proposed solution involving a sine function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement on the methods discussed, particularly the variation of parameters, but there is also significant uncertainty and confusion regarding the application of these methods and the specific forms of the solutions. No consensus is reached on the best approach or the correctness of the proposed solutions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the conditions under which certain methods apply, particularly regarding the substitution method and its limitations based on the characteristic polynomial of the equation. There are unresolved steps in the mathematical reasoning presented.

Clef
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Hey Guys,

I've been banging my head with this one for a few days now. I've done (a) and (b) but I'm yet to do (c) if someone could complete this for me or help me along the way that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks heaps!

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Do you know anything about solving constant-coefficient second order DEs?

Suggestion: Solve the homogemous, find a particular solution, then i = i_t + i_p where i_t = Solution to the homogenous, and i_p = particular solution.

Alternatively, if you knew Laplace Transform, you could try that as well.
 
Okay
I've found my homogenous solution to be
(e^-3t)(Acos4t + Bsin4t)

I'm now attempting the particular solution by changing the original equation into the complex form:

z'' + 6z' +25z = -292e^(i4t)

And solving that. To be honest I am completely stuck where to go from here and my attempts have been going in a very roundabout way.
:(
 
read some about the variation of parameters method
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_variation_of_parameters

basically if {u1,u2} are the basis of the homogenous solution space, you assume the private solution
of the NH equation is:
A(t)*u1(t)+B(t)*u2(t)

playing around with the ODE you get the linear system

u1*(dA/dt)+u2*(dB/dt)=0
(du1/dt)*(dA/dt)+(du2/dt)*(dB/dt)=q(t)

where q(t) is the NH part. you get A' and B' and then by integration you get A(t),B(t).
Notice that A*u1+B*u2 will be the general solution for the ODE because A,B will contain
the free parameters (due to integration).
 
elibj123 said:
read some about the variation of parameters method
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_variation_of_parameters

basically if {u1,u2} are the basis of the homogenous solution space, you assume the private solution
of the NH equation is:
A(t)*u1(t)+B(t)*u2(t)

playing around with the ODE you get the linear system

u1*(dA/dt)+u2*(dB/dt)=0
(du1/dt)*(dA/dt)+(du2/dt)*(dB/dt)=q(t)

where q(t) is the NH part. you get A' and B' and then by integration you get A(t),B(t).
Notice that A*u1+B*u2 will be the general solution for the ODE because A,B will contain
the free parameters (due to integration).

I'm really sorry. But I do not completely understand this method. Would it be the same as substituting
y= tAcos4t+tbsin4t into the equation and then equating to get the PS?
 
or is it sufficient to use
i= Acos4t + Bcos4t

for the solution for the particular solution of the whole DE?

Because I read somewhere that for some reason you have to put

i= t(Acos4t + Bsin4t)

but this is very very confusing :'(
 
I'm familiar with the substitution method but i don't like it because as you said it has many rules depending on the characteristic polynomial of the equation (i am not sure if this method even works for non-linear ode).

Variation of Parameters method is pretty simple once you have the basis of the solution-space.
The technique is very simple (without going into developing the method):
if you have a basis [tex]u_{j}[/tex] (in this case you found 2 functions)
then you get n linear equations of n variable [tex]k^{'}_{j}[/tex].

each equation is of the form:
[tex]\sum^{n}_{j=1}(\frac{d^{i}u_{j}}{dt^{i}}*k^{'}_{j})=0, \forall i=0,...,n-2[/tex]

and for i=n-1 you get the equation:
[tex]\sum^{n}_{j=1}(\frac{d^{n-1}u_{j}}{dt^{n-1}}*k^{'}_{j})=g(t)[/tex]

these are algebrical euqations. after you solve them you must integrate and then you
get n functions:
[tex]k_{j}(t)=\int(k^{'}_{j})dt+c_{j}[/tex]

and you put them back in the "linear"-combination

[tex]u_{general}(t)=\sum^{n}_{j=1}(k_j(t)*u_{j}(t))[/tex]
 
okay. I think I've sort of got a handle on this way.
Would it be

=A'cos4t +B'sin4t = 0
-A'4sin4t + B'cos4t = -292sin4t

Then by equating coefficients and integrating
=A' = 73
therefore A = -73t
B' = 0
therefore B= 0

therefore the PS is -73tsin4t?
 
Last edited:

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