Seeking Help with Electromagnetism: Understanding 'Cancelling the Singularity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the behavior of integrals in electromagnetism, particularly in relation to singularities in the context of charge distributions. Participants explore how the cancellation of singularities occurs in different coordinate systems, specifically comparing spherical and Cartesian coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the cancellation of singularities in the integral for electric fields, specifically questioning the role of the volume element in spherical coordinates.
  • Another participant confirms that in spherical coordinates, the volume element does indeed include a term that cancels the singularity, but raises the question of how this applies in Cartesian coordinates.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding the behavior of the integral in Cartesian coordinates, asking if there is a way to demonstrate that it will not diverge at the singularity.
  • Some participants suggest that using spherical coordinates simplifies the analysis, while others express curiosity about the Cartesian approach.
  • There is a discussion about the limits of integration in both coordinate systems and how they affect the evaluation of the integrals, particularly in relation to singularities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the integral does not diverge in spherical coordinates due to the cancellation of the singularity. However, there is no consensus on how to demonstrate this behavior in Cartesian coordinates, and the discussion reflects differing opinions on the ease of using one coordinate system over another.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the limits of integration differ between spherical and Cartesian coordinates, which may influence the evaluation of integrals involving singularities.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners of electromagnetism, particularly those interested in the mathematical treatment of electric fields and the implications of coordinate systems on integral evaluations.

kiwakwok
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I am currently reading a book about the electromegnetism. When I went through the introductory chapter, there is a small part that I do not understand clearly. Therefore, I hope that I can seek help here.


Quote:
--- --- --- --- ---
\mathbf{E(r)}=\int\;d\mathbf{r'}\;\frac{\mathbf{r-r'}}{|\mathbf{r-r'}|^3}\rho(\mathbf{r'})​

where d\mathbf{r'} represents the three-dimensional volume element. Note that in spite of the singularity at \mathbf{r=r'}, the integral is finite for a finite charge distribution, even when the point [\itex]\mathbf{r}[\itex] is in the region containing charge. This is because the volume element d\mathbf{r'} in the neighbourhood of a point \mathbf{r'} goes like |\mathbf{r-r'}|^2 for small \mathbf{r-r'}, thereby cancelling the singularity.
--- --- --- --- ---​


I have highlighted the part that I do not fully understand. Does that sentence means in the spherical coordinate, one can write the volume element as d\mathbf{r'}=\tilde{r}^2\sin\theta d\tilde{r}d\theta d\phi where \tilde{r}=|\mathbf{r-r'}|, and the \tilde{r}^2 terms cancel? If so, what if I am not using the spherical coordinate but others such as Cartesian coordinate? There is no \tilde{r}^2 term to do the cancellation.

Thanks in advance for giving me a helping hand.


Reference: P.3, Classical Field Theory by Francis E. Low
 
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hi kiwakwok! :smile:
kiwakwok said:
Does that sentence means in the spherical coordinate, one can write the volume element as d\mathbf{r'}=\tilde{r}^2\sin\theta d\tilde{r}d\theta d\phi where \tilde{r}=|\mathbf{r-r'}|, and the \tilde{r}^2 terms cancel?

yes :smile:
If so, what if I am not using the spherical coordinate but others such as Cartesian coordinate? There is no \tilde{r}^2 term to do the cancellation.

then its dx' = dx' dy' dz' :wink:

(the dθ and dφ of course are dimensionless, which is why there*was an added r2)
 
Thanks tiny-tim. I have one follow-up question:

In spherical coordinate, we can clearly see that the integral above will not blow up even at the singularity. The situation should be the same no matter which coordinate system we use. In the Cartesian coordinates, the integral can be rewritten as

\mathbf{E(x)}=\int dx'dy'dz'\;\rho(\mathbf{x'})\frac{(x-x')\hat{x'}+(y-y')\hat{y'}+(z-z')\hat{z'}}{\left[(x-x')^2+(y-y')^2+(z-z')^2\right]^{3/2}}​

Is there any way that we can know that this integral will not blow up, as what we did previously?
 
why bother? :confused:

it's a lot easier with spherical coordinates​
 
I was just interested in such a stupid question xP
 
kiwakwok said:
Thanks tiny-tim. I have one follow-up question:

In spherical coordinate, we can clearly see that the integral above will not blow up even at the singularity. The situation should be the same no matter which coordinate system we use. In the Cartesian coordinates, the integral can be rewritten as

\mathbf{E(x)}=\int dx'dy'dz'\;\rho(\mathbf{x'})\frac{(x-x')\hat{x'}+(y-y')\hat{y'}+(z-z')\hat{z'}}{\left[(x-x')^2+(y-y')^2+(z-z')^2\right]^{3/2}}​

Is there any way that we can know that this integral will not blow up, as what we did previously?

Note that if you integrated in spherical coordinates, the limits of integration over a volume centered about the origin would be from 0 to A in terms of r. So if we had a uniform distribution of charge about the origin, we would need the integrand with respect to r to be at least O(1) so that we lost the singularity when evaluating the integration from 0 to A. That is, if the integral was something like 1/r, then we would try to evaluate ln(A)-ln(0) and so on.

But the limits of integration in Cartesian coordinates are different. For a volume about the origin, we would integrate, say z', from -A to A. In this case, an integrand like 1/z^2 is still integrable despite the singularity in the integrand at the origin.
 

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