Seeking Symmetry: Lie Group & Algebra Models

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exploration of Lie groups and Lie algebras, specifically focusing on certain matrix forms and their implications in physical theories or models. Participants examine the properties of these algebraic structures and their potential representations, particularly in relation to differential operators.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the existence of a physical theory or model that utilizes specific Lie group and algebra forms.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the definitions of the group and algebra in question.
  • Concerns are raised about the operations under which the proposed structures can be considered groups, with a focus on the identity element in matrix multiplication.
  • A participant suggests that the group can be viewed as the additive group of a vector space, while the algebra is described as trivial.
  • Another participant argues for the necessity of a non-zero value in the top left of the algebra, describing it as a non-nilpotent structure with a trivial center and a specific multiplication table.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about the practical applications or occurrences of the proposed Lie algebra, noting a cochain complex related to it and its first cohomology group.
  • There is a suggestion that the group is not particularly interesting, although translations related to it appear in physics.
  • A later reply discusses the Chevalley-Eilenberg complex associated with the Lie algebra, noting specific cohomology groups and questioning the significance of the algebraic structure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the properties and significance of the Lie group and algebra, with no consensus reached on their implications or applications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relevance of the proposed structures in physical theories.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions about the algebra's properties and the operations defining the group, indicating potential limitations in their definitions and the scope of their inquiry.

fresh_42
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TL;DR
Is there a physical system which uses these groups?
I wonder whether there is a physical theory / model / example whatever, that uses one of the (Lie) groups ##\begin{bmatrix}1&a_2&\ldots&a_n\\0&1&\ldots&0\\ \vdots & \vdots &&\vdots \\0&0&\ldots&1 \end{bmatrix}## or the Lie algebra ##\begin{bmatrix}a_1&a_2&\ldots&a_n\\0&0&\ldots&0\\ \vdots & \vdots &&\vdots \\0&0&\ldots&0 \end{bmatrix}##?
 
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What exactly are the group and the algebra?
 
Under what operation is this a group? It can't be matrix multiplication because there is no identity.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Under what operation is this a group? It can't be matrix multiplication because there is no identity.
Silly me. Corrected.
martinbn said:
What exactly are the group and the algebra?
Matrix multiplication and commutator, resp.

I would be happy if someone knew a representation of the Lie algebra in terms of differential operators.
 
Then the group is just the additive group ##\mathbb F^{n-1}##. The algebra should have zero in the top left, and is the trivial algebra, trivial commutator on ##\mathbb F^{n-1}##.
 
No, the algebra needs the non zero value at top left. I want it to be non nilpotent with a trivial center. It's basically the simplest non trivial Lie algebra with the multiplication table ##[X_1,X_i]=X_i## and ##[X_i.X_j]=0##. I admit that it's a bit of numerology I'm doing here. I'm chasing for an imagination of that Lie algebra. What is it good for? Does it occur anywhere? Modulo the fact that I didn't make any mistakes in my calculation, I found a cochain complex of that Lie algebra whose first cohomology group( space?) is ##\mathfrak{sl}_{(n-1)}##. This is funny by itself, but I wonder if it is just that: funny. A realization or representation via diff operators would at least help me better understand this property: Simplest non Abelian Lie algebra.
 
I assumed that the Lie algebra was supposed to be the Lie algebra of the given group. I ques that is not what you meant. In any case the group is just the additive group and is not that interesting. Of course translations appear here and there in physics.
 
It's becoming even more funnier: If we write ##\mathfrak{g}_n :=\langle X_1,\ldots\, , \,X_n\,|\,[X-1,X_k]=X_k\, , \,[X_i,X_j]=0\rangle## then I have a certain Chevalley-Eilenberg complex such that ##H^0(\mathfrak{g}_n)=H^2(\mathfrak{g}_n)=\{0\}## and ##H^1(\mathfrak{g}_n)\cong\mathfrak{sl}(n-1)\cong \mathfrak{su}(n-1)##. That's why I asked whether there is any meaning for ##\mathfrak{g}_n##. So far it's just an easy, but nasty calculation. I need a better understanding on the simple part: ##\mathfrak{g}_n##.
 

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