News Should Bush meet with Cindy Sheehan?

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SOS2008

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revelator said:
Terrible as it is, her suffering and grief doesn't grant a right for an audience with the President. I feel very bad for her loss, and I agree with her that the war is wrong, but her I'm sure her son knew what he was getting himself into when he joined the army.
Yeh, let this be a lesson to all who might consider enlisting... You might be called upon to sacrifice your life for lies. Er, that wouldn't be why the military is having such a hard time recruiting right now, would it?
 
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kcballer21 said:
No right? Russ, can you even begin to imagine what it's like to lose a child? Especially when you believe, as this lady did, that ultimate cause of your child's death was a bogus war started by Bush. Evo's reasoning is good, but I personally would want to meet with all the parents of the children I've sent to their premature deaths. Maybe that's why I wouldn't make a good president....
How much time would you ideally spend with each person? How feasible would it be, really? People choose to be soldiers, there is no manditory draft... so in a way they make their own destiny (subject to someone elses decision)...

When working at corporate jobs, we make sacrifices / compromises to our best judgement / moral values due to company needs. We chose to work for the company and do it's bidding. Some soldiers join armed forces hoping to never actually have to fight a war. It's like a gamble for them. Unfortunately, some lose everything.

No, I wouldn't know what it would feel like to lose a child to a bogus war, but I know how it feels to know that lots of people are dying for bogus causes all over the world (literally & figuratively)

Those with the power are supposed to take responsibility.
 
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BobG

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SOS2008 said:
..... Still, I think maybe Rove has been a little preoccupied and .....
Ivan Seeking said:
It may or may not be related to her current actions. It does show that in addition to losing her son, her life is not stable.
Ahh, that's more like it. He wasn't preoccupied for long. Make sure everyone knows she's going through a stressful enough time that she may be a bit mentally unbalanced. Rove is back!

In spite of that, there really isn't much Bush could accomplish by meeting with her. The only reason would be to put end to the bad press she's getting him - and sitting there and taking it from the media just isn't Bush's style.
 

russ_watters

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Ivan Seeking said:
It may or may not be related to her current actions. It does show that in addition to losing her son, her life is not stable.
Not like I really want to know (its not any of my business), but it does make me wonder what the cause-effect relationship is there between these events.
SOS2008 said:
Cindy has been anti-war even before her son was killed shows her feelings about the war are real and not just motivated by grief.
Not necessarily true. My mother was against me going into the military and would have opposed damn near any war just based on the chance that it might require my deployment. Mothers are like that (not that there's anything wrong with that, but it did annoy me that she tried to talk me into becoming an accountant).
 

russ_watters

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kcballer21 said:
No right? Russ, can you even begin to imagine what it's like to lose a child? Especially when you believe, as this lady did, that ultimate cause of your child's death was a bogus war started by Bush. Evo's reasoning is good...
So... you agree that she doesn't have the right, though?
...but I personally would want to meet with all the parents of the children I've sent to their premature deaths. Maybe that's why I wouldn't make a good president....
Ok, so you'd do it because you're a nice guy. Fine. How does that make it a right?
 

Informal Logic

kcballer21 said:
No right? Russ, can you even begin to imagine what it's like to lose a child? Especially when you believe, as this lady did, that ultimate cause of your child's death was a bogus war started by Bush. Evo's reasoning is good, but I personally would want to meet with all the parents of the children I've sent to their premature deaths. Maybe that's why I wouldn't make a good president....
Bush did meet with her and her husband originally. She regrets she did not express her true feelings at that time so wants another meeting (supposedly). While a president would have concerns about setting precedent, if it had been me, I would have met with her right off the bat the very first day just to keep it from becoming the media feeding frenzy it has become.
 

Art

Personally I see no point in a meeting; well unless she gives Bush a hefty kick in the 'nuts'. She is hardly going to sway his foreign policy and he is hardly likely to persuade her that her son's death was worth it for the prize of establishing a theocratic gov't in Iraq.
 
russ_watters said:
So... you agree that she doesn't have the right, though? Ok, so you'd do it because you're a nice guy. Fine. How does that make it a right?
Ok, you got me Russ, Bush doesn't have to meet with her, but he should. The main point of my post was that it is utterly tragic to have to lose a child in such an ignoble war. So I guess I would be nicer than average to meet the crazy lady who lost her mind from grief.
outsider said:
How much time would you ideally spend with each person? How feasible would it be, really? People choose to be soldiers, there is no manditory draft... so in a way they make their own destiny (subject to someone elses decision)...
I'm not sure, how about enough to try to convince them that the cause was worth it. Soldiers don't choose to take part in mishandled wars, they choose to protect their country against legitimate threats and for good reasons.
outsider said:
Those with the power are supposed to take responsibility.
Unfortunately, this war isn't an example of that.
revelator said:
Terrible as it is, her suffering and grief doesn't grant a right for an audience with the President. I feel very bad for her loss, and I agree with her that the war is wrong, but her I'm sure her son knew what he was getting himself into when he joined the army.
Thanks to Russ, I now agree with you about the right to meet the President. However, you would be suprised how many 17 and 18 year olds don't know what they are getting into when they join the military, but that's off topic.
 

Skyhunter

Good thoughts everyone.

I think it is a no win situation for Bush, and your posts support that conclusion.

If he meets with her, he will be seen as giving in, if he doesn't he will be seen as un-caring.

So all I can say about Cindy Sheehan is "You go girl." :smile:
 
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I agree, either way its a loss for Bush. He has neither the compassion or the tact to understand a mothers anger. And I am sure he can not supply the answers to any of her questions.
 
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Skyhunter said:
Good thoughts everyone.

I think it is a no win situation for Bush, and your posts support that conclusion.

If he meets with her, he will be seen as giving in, if he doesn't he will be seen as un-caring.

So all I can say about Cindy Sheehan is "You go girl." :smile:
I'm with you Skyhunter. She is doing what she believes in. Good for her. :approve:
 
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kcballer21 said:
However, you would be suprised how many 17 and 18 year olds don't know what they are getting into when they join the military, but that's off topic.
It's unfortunate that people should sign up for the military without first giving it much thought.

I'd consider the training worthwhile for the level of discipline and stamina one could build up. However I have no intention of getting myself killed at the whims of our so called leaders. I think Yossarian from Catch-22 said it best, that the enemy is whoever is putting you in a position where you'll be killed. Be it the opposing troops or your own leaders who are sending you to war.
 
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She has the right to request.. he has the right to deny....

There is no benefit for Bushy to meet her anymore... he can't win.
 

russ_watters

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kcballer21 said:
So I guess I would be nicer than average to meet the crazy lady who lost her mind from grief.
Well, even if you were the most popular President in history, you'd still have tens of millions of people thinking you were doing a bad job. Grant one an audience and I think you'd soon find the line at your office door going down the hall, out the front door, down route 50, and into Baltimore.
 
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That only seems to apply to American presidents. :tongue2:
 
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outsider said:
She has the right to request.. he has the right to deny....

There is no benefit for Bushy to meet her anymore... he can't win.
sorry off topic

He can't win in Iraq either. The outcome was cast in stone the second we dropped the first bomb.
 

SOS2008

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Aug. 18th there were 1,627 vigils in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Well over 100,000 attended, from Alaska to Florida, Maine to Mississippi, Oregon to South Carolina and New York to Texas. Now, the Bush administration has launched a public relations tour of the country to convince the public that things aren't going so badly in Iraq.

Bush: War protesters wrong -
Aug. 23: President Bush acknowledged Iraq war protests but questioned whether the mother who has become the lightning rod for the anti-war group has much of a following. NBC's David Gregory reports.
:rolleyes:

Then there is the recent poll that showed 90% of Americans believe in the right to protest the war. That may seem good, but that means 10% don't believe in freedom of speech! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9084651/

Hmm...would that be the same group of Bush supporters the police had to restrain from attacking another group of people because they thought the group was protesting the war?
 
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SOS2008 said:
Hmm...would that be the same group of Bush supporters the police had to restrain from attacking another group of people because they thought the group was protesting the war?
LOL. Well I guess the guy that supported the troops by running over the memorial was more than a little conflicted.
 
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Three things.

1/ Losing a kid increases your chance of divorce astronomically. I've been through it, did the group support, know the people who lost their kids any number of ways. Sheehan's divorce is about her son dying, and how she and her husband are two crumbling walls that can't hold one another up.


2/ bush's solution is as clear as the nose on his face. He *doesn't* meet with her personally, but rather he makes an appropriate address. Not a war mongering address. An address that shows his *humanity* and his reaction to the *death* that is occuring as a result of his agenda. He needs to say Casey's name. This is not rocket science. Sheehan may not forgive him but he will do a hell of a lot for public opinion if he shows that he is not a callous idiot who can't even say "Casey."

My husband disagrees. He thinks this will erode the core supporters who like that Bush is a "straight shooter" and is "the devil that they know" instead of the devil they don't.

3/ The Pruett development was the height of stupidity. Tammy says:

"And I guess you couldn't ask for a better way of life than giving it for something that you believe in."
And this seems damn applicable to any number of suicide bombers.

bush kisses her. He stands up with her and lauds her. The message is loud and clear: "There is only one kind of patriotism. Screw 'united we stand' and screw the people who oppose the war. Pruett is the sort of mom we want for our country. Pacifists "need not apply."

If Pruett loses a kid, she may still support Bush but I guarantee her tone will change.
She's in denial now, and if she buried a child she'd be in *hell.*

To any parents out there: Your mileage may vary. I think I understand Sheehan, and what she's going through. I could be wrong - But I think I get it.
 
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Kerrie

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I think it would be good for Bush to meet with her, and it would also put a lot more respect out there for him for those who don't support his decision making. Him avoiding her (IMO) just compounds "wussy" image he holds among many. He can still vocalize his decision to stay in Iraq, but acknowledging her especially would be acknowledging all of the pain that many are enduring do to this war that most feel is unnecessary and unfounded.
 
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who cares about cindy, let her make a fool out of her self.
that's all i have to say about that.

fibonacci
 
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I'll tell you something. When your kid dies, you don't care if you look like a fool or not. The opinion you, fibonacci, express here ... means squat on this issue, to someone like Cindy, compared to her knowing that her son is OK and/or that there was purpose in his death.

She's making damn sure his life counts as much as possible, and you'd do the same. You have no idea the crusades parents take in these circumstances.

Here's one question to give you some persopective: Who of the 6 billion people on this planet will say his name ... if his *mother* doesn't?

Bush had to *find* Pruett. I guarantee you Pruett isn't 1/20th as motivated to promote her interests, as Sheehan.

Life gets more interesting. Wait and see. I expect the people who think Cindy looks 'foolish' are the people who haven't lived through much heartache.

-Patty, Rachel's mom (And you'd never know her name, if I didn't tell you it. No one else is likely to take the time.)
 

JamesU

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her child died! do you think she cares that she's making a fool out of herself?! I think that the president should meet with her, she could represent all the greiving parents. and the only reason he doesn't is because he can't think of a good enough answer to her questions.
 
yomamma said:
her child died! do you think she cares that she's making a fool out of herself?! I think that the president should meet with her, she could represent all the greiving parents. and the only reason he doesn't is because he can't think of a good enough answer to her questions.
The point is that he already met with her and already spoke with her. She's looking for a rematch.
 
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Well, from the humanistic perspective, I'd guess that in that first meeting she was a bit numb from Casey's death. She hadn't seen DSM, etc, yet. She may not have known what to expect from Bush, and may have naively expected that the meeting would give her some sense of pride, or closure, or meaning.

I'd further guess that the meeting was less than she hoped (have you ever heard his comments in these cases? I'll dig some up.)

Here's the first hit on: Bush address "your loved ones" (that's one of his favorite phrases in these matters.) This is from his March 2003 adress to the nation. Casey was enlisted, but not sent over yet, if I recall correctly.

I know that the families of our military are praying that all those who serve will return safely and soon. Millions of Americans are praying with you for the safety of your loved ones and for the protection of the innocent. For your sacrifice, you have the gratitude and respect of the American people. And you can know that our forces will be coming home as soon as their work is done.

Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.
This isn't the most illustrative quote for how he responds to grieving families, but if I find somethin more appropriate I'll add it. In the meantime, it will do --- Do you see (1) how at the time, he gave Casey's choice *purpose*? (freeing the innocent, poor Iraqis.) To Cindy, that may have been something worth getting behind. Do you also see the (2) deceptions that have since come to light? (weapons of mass murder). *THAT* is the basis of her desire for another meeting with Bush.

I think the smoking man was right. What's missing in these calculated discussions of war games, is the emotional human element. Following the chronology of Casey's death and the news about no WMD, intelligence fixing etc, and how this all lines up chronologically with Cindy's normal stages of grief after profound loss, Cindy's actions are human, and a mother's actions - not a calculated "second match" of some sort.

If Bush were to *respond* as fellow human being, the whole thing would play out differently. (Not too much chance of that.)
 
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