News Should Bush meet with Cindy Sheehan?

[TheStatutoryApe]

Do you see (1) how at the time, he gave Casey's choice *purpose*? (freeing the innocent, poor Iraqis.) To Cindy, that may have been something worth getting behind. Do you also see the (2) deceptions that have since come to light? (weapons of mass murder). *THAT* is the basis of her desire for another meeting with Bush.

I'm sure there are people all over the world that want to see Bush about these things and the majority of them won't even get to talk to him once let alone twice. What does she have to offer the situation that warrents a second meeting with the President? Don't you think she could better spend her energy doing something else?

Cindy's actions are human, and a mother's actions - not a calculated "second match" of some sort.

I wasn't meaning my last statement that way. I was just pointing out to yomamma that he had already talked to her and she wants to talk to him again.

 

[pattylou]

What does she have to offer the situation that warrents a second meeting with the President? Don't you think she could better spend her energy doing something else?

Well, maybe. But she seems to have started something amazing with the approach she has used. (Over 22000 news articles on "sheehan" just now.) So, I think she probably couldn't "do something better" with her energies, another way, at least not from her perspective.

Maybe she feels that this movement is ultimately what will give meaning to Casey's death, even though she originally hoped for a meeting.

I wonder if she would leave Camp Casey now, if Bush *did* meet with her. Hmmm. Interesting.

 

[Skyhunter]

Well, maybe. But she seems to have started something amazing with the approach she has used. (Over 22000 news articles on "sheehan" just now.) So, I think she probably couldn't "do something better" with her energies, another way, at least not from her perspective.

Maybe she feels that this movement is ultimately what will give meaning to Casey's death, even though she originally hoped for a meeting.

I wonder if she would leave Camp Casey now, if Bush *did* meet with her. Hmmm. Interesting.

I don't think she really had any expectations. I think that when he said the 19 guardsmen died for a noble cause that she could not contain her anger, so she decided to go to Crawford and confront him.

Bush has so divided this country that people were ready to join her.

Have I mentioned before how I sincerely believe that he is the worst president in history, because of the damage he has done?

And there is not even a close second!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Well, maybe. But she seems to have started something amazing with the approach she has used. (Over 22000 news articles on "sheehan" just now.) So, I think she probably couldn't "do something better" with her energies, another way, at least not from her perspective.

Maybe she feels that this movement is ultimately what will give meaning to Casey's death, even though she originally hoped for a meeting.

I wonder if she would leave Camp Casey now, if Bush *did* meet with her. Hmmm. Interesting.

Plenty of articles about her in the news but what exactly is it accomplishing? Does it give Bush a worse name than he already has? Does it get people's attention? Now what is she going to do with those things? With the clout that she has gained I'm sure she could do quite a bit. So what is she doing aside from keeping her name in the papers?
I just scanned her site and I don't see her doing anything but these vigils. Does she give any of the money people donate to her to anything but her campaign against Bush? Has she helped out other grieving parents aside from giving them something to keep their mind off the death of their children? Since she was so angry about the president using her son's name in his defense of the war why do her people have a problem with parents of soldiers whose names she is using for her war wanting her not to use those names any more?

 

[pattylou]

It legitimizes opposition in a way that wasn't present before.

Thousands of people attending vigils - this starts to become something politicians feel they can make a stand on.

You're asking for tangibles, I'm talking trends. Currently the 'tangibles' are the news articles, which demonstrate the 'trend' she has played a part in catalyzing. It is possible that additional tangibles (politicians becoming more vocal against the war as they perceive their constituency allowing or wishing for such opposition) will become apparent. If politicians become vocal enough, it may affect the "timetable" of withdrawal. It may affect our choices WRT Iran, Syria, NK.

Or, it may not. But an upswelling of war opposition is what we didn't have before, and do seem to be getting, now.

 

[Informal Logic]

It legitimizes opposition in a way that wasn't present before.

Thousands of people attending vigils - this starts to become something politicians feel they can make a stand on.

You're asking for tangibles, I'm talking trends. Currently the 'tangibles' are the news articles, which demonstrate the 'trend' she has played a part in catalyzing. It is possible that additional tangibles (politicians becoming more vocal against the war as they perceive their constituency allowing or wishing for such opposition) will become apparent. If politicians become vocal enough, it may affect the "timetable" of withdrawal. It may affect our choices WRT Iran, Syria, NK.

Or, it may not. But an upswelling of war opposition is what we didn't have before, and do seem to be getting, now.

Approximately 40% of Americans have always opposed the invasion of Iraq. They have tried to protest, but have been suppressed as unpatriotic. Now that the Independents and even some Republicans are against the war as well, there are enough numbers to get the media and politicians on board. You will note that the vigils are peaceful, and along with the crosses (religious symbolism) there are American flags (nationalism) that show the fundamentalists and neocons do not have a corner on God and patriotism. It just may help unify our country, which is badly needed because of divisions created by Bush and his regime.

In the meantime, I hope Bush will continue his negative sell tactics against Cindy and anti war activists. It makes him look as ugly as he really is. And I hope people like fib remain oblivious to the changing of the guard.

 

[Skyhunter]

I think that Cindy is starting something.

What Noble Cause Did Casey Sheehan Die For?
"Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation. No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam."
- Iraqi Constitution supported by Iran-backed Shiites and the Bush Administration (but opposed by Sunni leaders)

"Fortunately, after years of effort and expectations in Iraq, an Islamic state has come to power and the constitution has been established on the basis of Islamic precepts. We must congratulate the Iraqi people and authorities for this victory."
- Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, head of Iran's powerful ultra-conservative Guardian Council

"This is the future of the new Iraqi government - it will be in the hands of the clerics. I wanted Iraqi women to be free, to be able to talk freely and to able to move around. I am not going to stay here."
- Dr. Raja Kuzai, an obstetrician and secular Shiite member of the Assembly who met President Bush in the White House in November 2003.

Resolution of Inquiry into Bush Lies Gains Momentum
There are now 53 co-sponsors on Barbara Lee's Resolution of Inquiry into the Downing Street Memos, including one Republican member of the International Relations Committee, Jim Leach. If your Representative isn't on this list yet, please call their D.C. office (202-224-3121) and ask to speak to the Legislative Director. Ask why they haven't cosponsored HRes375, and then report back to us. A vote in committee will come between Sept. 6 and Sept. 16.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/902

"Bring the Troops Home Now" Bus Tour Begins August 31
On August 31st, the last day of the encampment, the Bring Them Home Now Tour will launch three buses from Crawford, Texas, each carrying military and Gold Star families, veterans of the Iraq War and veterans of previous wars. These buses will travel different routes across the country, converging in Washington, DC on September 21, for the United for Peace and Justice Mobilization September 24th-26th. From George Bush's doorstep to communities along the way, we demand that:
* Elected Representatives Decide Now to Bring the Troops Home
* We Take Care of Them When They Get Here
* We Never Again Send Our Loved Ones to War Based on Lies!
http://www.bringthemhomenowtour.org/

Why Aren't Congress's Kids Fighting in Iraq?

Dear Senator/Representative,
If you support the War in Iraq, why aren't you or your children or your grandchildren fighting there?
The Army is short of soldiers because of the Iraq War disaster. This
shortage has put our national security in danger throughout the world.
Your family can help fix the problem that you created by supporting the Iraq War disaster.
As your constituent, I will continue to ask this question until you call for the withdrawal of America's children from Iraq.
http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/57

Maybe the Democrats are starting to get a pair. About time, I am so sick of Republocratic rule. We could really use an opposition party in this country.

 

[1123581321]

do you see anyone else doing what she is doing? no. she is just dishonoring the memory of her child, who i have great respect for, but somehow i don't care about her because she has to be an a$$ about it. if she would quietly protest the war, then people would still feel sorry for her and respect her right to protest. she had her meeting, most people don't even get a meeting, she should be happy that she got one. besides, what does she hope to accomplish? she is in no position to change the president. one citizen holds very little power.

her husband is divorcing her after 20 or so years, her kids are asking her to come home, she should be spending her time with her living family and morning the death of her son, not camping in texas waiting for a meeting that won't come.

fibonacci

 

[SOS2008]

I think that Cindy is starting something. ...Maybe the Democrats are starting to get a pair. About time, I am so sick of Republocratic rule. We could really use an opposition party in this country.

Excellent information. Though I call it Repugnantcan rule, but that works too.

do you see anyone else doing what she is doing? no. she is just dishonoring the memory of her child, who i have great respect for, but somehow i don't care about her because she has to be an a$$ about it. if she would quietly protest the war, then people would still feel sorry for her and respect her right to protest. she had her meeting, most people don't even get a meeting, she should be happy that she got one. besides, what does she hope to accomplish? she is in no position to change the president. one citizen holds very little power.

her husband is divorcing her after 20 or so years, her kids are asking her to come home, she should be spending her time with her living family and morning the death of her son, not camping in texas waiting for a meeting that won't come.

fibonacci

Umm...did you read any of the posts above? Many other Americans who have lost loved ones in Iraq have joined the movement. Cindy is honoring her child--you got it backwards. The protests/vigils are peaceful, don't you pay attention to the news? You are right about one thing--no one can change the president. Like you, he has his head in...the sand.

 

[Skyhunter]

do you see anyone else doing what she is doing? no. she is just dishonoring the memory of her child, who i have great respect for, but somehow i don't care about her because she has to be an a$$ about it. if she would quietly protest the war, then people would still feel sorry for her and respect her right to protest. she had her meeting, most people don't even get a meeting, she should be happy that she got one. besides, what does she hope to accomplish? she is in no position to change the president. one citizen holds very little power.

her husband is divorcing her after 20 or so years, her kids are asking her to come home, she should be spending her time with her living family and morning the death of her son, not camping in texas waiting for a meeting that won't come.

fibonacci

And what is the purpose of a quiet protest?
Please say you are joking.

 

[pattylou]

Maybe she feels that this movement is ultimately what will give meaning to Casey's death, even though she originally hoped for a meeting.

Sheehan Glad Bush Didn't Meet With Her

By ANGELA K. BROWN
The Associated Press
Tuesday, August 30, 2005; 11:33 PM

CRAWFORD, Texas -- A woman who led an anti-war protest for nearly a month near President Bush's ranch said Tuesday that she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

Cindy Sheehan's comments came as war protesters packed up their campsite near the ranch and prepared to leave Tuesday for a three-week bus tour.

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press. "If he'd met with me, then I would have gone home, and it would have ended there."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/30/AR2005083001592.html

Like Informal Logic said:

In the meantime, I hope Bush will continue his negative sell tactics against Cindy and anti war activists. It makes him look as ugly as he really is. And I hope people like fib remain oblivious to the changing of the guard.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

"If he'd met with me, then I would have gone home, and it would have ended there."

So then this is/was about her and getting her meeting? If she got it she would have just gone home and been done with it? Doesn't sound like she's terribly dedicated to a cause really. The things it seems that hurt her position in some people's eyes is that she comes off as selfish and self promoting. She doesn't seem to give much reason to believe otherwise.

 

[pattylou]

So then this is/was about her and getting her meeting? If she got it she would have just gone home and been done with it? Doesn't sound like she's terribly dedicated to a cause really. The things it seems that hurt her position in some people's eyes is that she comes off as selfish and self promoting. She doesn't seem to give much reason to believe otherwise.

It wasn't about a cause, no. It was about her screaming "Why did my kid die?!"

That a movement has grown out of it probably makes her think she now has a reason, in retrospect, for why her kid died.

You can say it's nuts, if you want, but that's how it goes. When your kid dies, you feel like you're facing a mountain that you have to tunnel through, and your only tool is a spoon.

Was it selfish? In the sense that she is surviving one day at a time, any way she can, sure. Was it also selfless? In the sense that she feels the way she does because of her love for her child, with whom mothers are completely tied up as a matter of course, yes - it was also selfless.

 

[1123581321]

Let me put it this way:
President Bush did not kill her son.
Her son signed up, he was not drafted.
He knew what could happen to him, but he still went.
He was mature enough to make his own decision, he was not "conned" into the millitary.
He sacrificed his life for his country.
He did not have to go.
Do you understand?
She still has the right to protest, but her protest makes no sence.

Mehercule!

 

[edward]

Let me put it this way:
President Bush did not kill her son.

No but he sent him to die for oil.

Her son signed up, he was not drafted.

There is no draft, hasn't been one for years.

He knew what could happen to him, but he still went.

He was a mechanic, he did not have a combat MOS.

He was mature enough to make his own decision, he was not "conned" into the millitary.

Have you talked to a recruiter lately?

He sacrificed his life for his country.

He sacrificed his life so you can buy gasoline.

He did not have to go.

Even as a mechanic he had no choice but to go.

Do you understand?

Do you understand?

She still has the right to protest, but her protest makes no sence.

What do you know about losing a son in a war that is about oil??

 

[Skyhunter]

So then this is/was about her and getting her meeting? If she got it she would have just gone home and been done with it? Doesn't sound like she's terribly dedicated to a cause really. The things it seems that hurt her position in some people's eyes is that she comes off as selfish and self promoting. She doesn't seem to give much reason to believe otherwise.

If Bush had met with her it could have taken away her anger and defused the situation. I think she is glad he didn't because she has sparked an anti-war movement.

Good for her.

 

[russ_watters]

So then this is/was about her and getting her meeting? If she got it she would have just gone home and been done with it? Doesn't sound like she's terribly dedicated to a cause really. The things it seems that hurt her position in some people's eyes is that she comes off as selfish and self promoting. She doesn't seem to give much reason to believe otherwise.

Since she did have a kid die, as pattylou said, she gets a free pass on irrational and selfish behavior. I find no fault in anything she did.

What I do fault in is those who exploited her and co-opted her grief for their own benefit.

 

[1123581321]

No but he sent him to die for oil.



There is no draft, hasn't been one for years.



He was a mechanic, he did not have a combat MOS.



Have you talked to a recruiter lately?



He sacrificed his life so you can buy gasoline.



Even as a mechanic he had no choice but to go.



Do you understand?



What do you know about losing a son in a war that is about oil??

i don't want to hear your war for oil bull****.

even if he was a mechanic, they still teach him how to kill in basic.

actually, yes, and you aren't conned into it. there actually are a lot of benefits one can get for signing up. i think it is you who needs to be enlightened.

again, sick of the oil bull.

 

[Astronuc]

Should Bush meet with Cindy Sheehan?

Not at the moment, he needs to be in New Orleans.

Perhaps later. I think Bush should personally meet with all the families whose sons and daughters were killed or severely wounded.

He made the decision - he put them in harms way.

 

[alexandra]

It wasn't about a cause, no. It was about her screaming "Why did my kid die?!"

That a movement has grown out of it probably makes her think she now has a reason, in retrospect, for why her kid died.

You can say it's nuts, if you want, but that's how it goes. When your kid dies, you feel like you're facing a mountain that you have to tunnel through, and your only tool is a spoon.

Was it selfish? In the sense that she is surviving one day at a time, any way she can, sure. Was it also selfless? In the sense that she feels the way she does because of her love for her child, with whom mothers are completely tied up as a matter of course, yes - it was also selfless.

Yep - you obviously know what you are talking about, pattylou. Boy, they would *not* like to see what huge movements I would mobilise against them if they killed *my* son in their imperialist war! No, surely they would not want to unleash that demon. But I have taught my son well, and unless there is conscription...

 

[alexandra]

No but he sent him to die for oil.

Quite!

Have you talked to a recruiter lately?

Excellent point, edward!

He sacrificed his life so you can buy gasoline.

...at higher prices, so that those who own the oil companies (and now control the price of oil) can make higher profits.

Do you understand?

Hmm, I suspect we have some very effective blinkers on... so, hmmm, probably not, edward (so sad, isn't it?)

What do you know about losing a son in a war that is about oil??

Yes, good question. Answer it, you gung-ho guys who are *so* in favour of this 'war'! What *do* you know about losing your son for this reason, huh?

 

[outsider]

Should Bush meet with Cindy Sheehan?

Not at the moment, he needs to be in New Orleans.

Perhaps later. I think Bush should personally meet with all the families whose sons and daughters were killed or severely wounded.

He made the decision - he put them in harms way.

he meets with them in group sessions.