Should Divergent Integrals Justify Ignoring Derivatives?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of ignoring the derivative $$\frac{d}{d \cos \theta} \sin \theta$$ within the interval $$\theta \in [0, \pi]$$ due to the divergence of its integral. Participants explore the implications of divergent integrals on the treatment of derivatives, examining both theoretical and practical aspects of the argument.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that the derivative should be ignored because its integral leads to divergence, questioning the acceptability of this reasoning.
  • Another participant challenges this view, stating that the derivative is complex and not straightforwardly related to the integral's divergence, suggesting that integration and differentiation are distinct operations.
  • A third participant reinforces the argument against ignoring the derivative, asserting that divergence does not justify neglecting terms unless they are significantly smaller than others.
  • A further elaboration provides a calculation of the derivative, showing that it exists and can be expressed in terms of cotangent, thereby supporting the argument that it should not be ignored.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are competing views on whether the divergence of the integral justifies ignoring the derivative.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the relationship between integration and differentiation are not fully explored, and the discussion does not resolve the implications of the derivative's complexity in relation to its divergence.

Tio Barnabe
I wanted to argue that $$\frac{d}{d \cos \theta} \sin \theta, \ \theta \in [0, \pi]$$ should be ignored in the given interval, because integration of it leads to a divergent integral. Is this acceptable as a reason?
 
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Tio Barnabe said:
I wanted to argue that $$\frac{d}{d \cos \theta} \sin \theta, \ \theta \in [0, \pi]$$ should be ignored in the given interval, because integration of it leads to a divergent integral. Is this acceptable as a reason?
First off, ##\frac{d}{d \cos \theta} \sin \theta## is pretty unwieldy, as ##\sin(\theta)## isn't a function of ##\cos(\theta)## at first glance. However, you could write the derivative as ##\frac d {d(\cos(\theta))} (\pm \sqrt{1 - \cos^2{\theta}})##, and then use the chain rule. So, no, I don't see that it's reasonable to ignore it.

Second, integration and differentiation are different operations, so the fact that the integral of some function on some interval is divergent doesn't have any bearing here.
 
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In addition to what @Mark44 said, the idea that something can be ignored because it is divergent is wrong. If it was very small compared to other terms, that would be different, but being too large makes it impossible to ignore.
 
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Just to further elaborate @Mark44's point, it isn't very hard to actually calculate the derivative and show that it does exist. So to drive home the point, here is the result.

Using the transformation ##\xi(\theta)=\text{cos}(\theta)##
$$\text{sin}(\theta)=\pm\sqrt{1-\xi^{2}}$$
so
$$\frac{d}{d\text{cos}(\theta)}\text{sin}(\theta)=\pm\frac{d}{d\xi}\sqrt{1-\xi^{2}}=\pm\frac{\xi}{\sqrt{1-\xi^{2}}}=\pm\frac{\text{cos}(\theta)}{\text{sin}(\theta)}=\pm\text{cot}(\theta)$$
 
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Thank you to everyone
 

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