Should I Learn PHP Before C++ for University?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether one should learn PHP before C++ for university studies. Participants explore the merits and drawbacks of various programming languages, including PHP, C++, Python, Ruby, and Java, in the context of learning programming and their applicability to scientific and technical tasks.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that PHP is too specialized for web design and suggest that it may not be the best starting point for programming.
  • Others emphasize that C++ is a difficult language with a steep learning curve and recommend starting with easier languages like Python or Ruby.
  • Warren suggests Python as a powerful and easy-to-learn language, particularly for scientific computations, and highlights its extensive library support.
  • There is a discussion about the differences between Python and C++, with some participants noting that Python is more modern and user-friendly.
  • Some participants express concerns about learning C++ first, citing the potential for developing bad habits without proper guidance.
  • One participant mentions that Java is a cleaner version of C++ but is declining in popularity, while Python is gaining traction in scientific computing.
  • There are suggestions that Python supports complex graphics and GUI development, making it suitable for simulations.
  • Another viewpoint is presented that C++ might be beneficial due to its support for multiple programming paradigms, which could ease the learning process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best language to start with, with multiple competing views on the merits of PHP, C++, Python, Ruby, and Java remaining throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the suitability of various languages for different tasks, particularly in the context of scientific computing and GUI development. There are also references to the historical context of programming languages, which may influence current opinions.

  • #31
shoehorn said:
Although it's ultimately a subjective matter, I disagree completely with this. I find C++ to be considerably easier both to learn and use than, say, C.

Without wishing to be insulting or start a flame war - then you are almost certainly not using it fully or correctly.

C has a single programming paradigm ( I can't believe I just used that word ) = procedures and only one major gotcha = pointers, and is decribed in a 200 page book.
C++ supports procedural, object orientated and functional programming, has innumerable gotchas across RTTI, multiple inheritance, templates. It comes with a very complex standard library + STL + BOOST. Even a description of these fills half a bookshelf.

C++ is a better language for most large programming projects, but it isn't the palce to learn programming. C is an excellent introduction to how computers work and I believe knowing it is necessary to call yourself a programmer in whatever language. But I'm not sure it's where I would recommend someone start learning programming today.
 
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  • #32
mgb_phys said:
Without wishing to be insulting or start a flame war - then you are almost certainly not using it fully or correctly.

Then I'll stop the possibility of starting a flame war by pointing out that you're completely incorrect about this. :smile:
 
  • #33
To toss my hat into the ring, C++ was my first real programming language. I also don't see any reason to learn C before learning C++ except if you actually intend to use C for something (i.e., don't learn C just as a stepping stone to C++)
 
  • #34
I started out learning C++ without having done any programming aside from QBASIC when I was a kid. Be prepared that when you start out nothing makes much sense but slowly you will pick up the terminology and begin to understand things.

You've just go to keep cramming in information and some of it will stick.
 
  • #35
I started on Turbo Pascal in college and it made life very easy. It also gives you good habbits. Then they moved us on to VB6 and I lost everything. I also started learning C which isn't to bad, but not great for starting.
 
  • #36
chroot said:
C++ is one of the most difficult languages in existence. Have you read the whole thread?

- Warren
Yes I have read the whole thread. However from my experience it was not too hard to learn. It is hard to master, but anything is.
 
  • #37
Well time to throw MY hat into the ring? I'm not sure about C++ or all of that other jazz, but after having practiced Python for some two weeks I can say I love it. It's easy to learn, and easy to put into practice -- in a few hours you'll know enough to make a script that hunts prime numbers, calculates your finances, or (if you should please) a phonebook.

It's fun learning -- everytime you understand a new concept, you can't help but think of all the programs you could make using the new technique.
 
  • #38
I hate OOP. It's absolutely awful. Just learn BASIC, then C. Out of curiosity, which OS will you be using?
 
  • #39
iamhere said:
I hate OOP. It's absolutely awful. Just learn BASIC,
Mr Knuth - is that you posting again?
 
  • #40
My advice. Learn java if you want it to be your first language, but if you already progressing in C++, java going to make your head blow.

And yes, python is always the good choice unless you still use pentium 2 :p
 
  • #41
c++ is a major headache if you don't want to be just a programmer, sr programmer, etc...
If you want to just go into IT/academia etc and want to program, it isn't necessary. I would also recommend python, it is what they teach at MIT for intro cs...
there is actually the whole class online for mit open courseware.

thing is you can use python for the web very easily... it goes into the lamp stack (p) ...but you could also use php/perl later on. It will teach you how programming works quicker than c++...

i struggled a bit with c++ is why I am saying this...sorry, I don't want to spend all my valuable time testing and debugging, I am not a CS major... I just need the job done fast. python was a breeze in comparison and gets the job done. php can also *get the job done down and dirty* quickly for the web...
 

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