Should I Switch Majors or Schools to Secure a Better Future?

[homeomorphic]

Oh no, I wasn't able to Google fast enough.

http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

So, yes, EE is better than physics, as claimed, although it's not that much better.

I thought we established much earlier, though, that the unemployment rate is not really the issue.

 

[micromass]

Oh no, I wasn't able to Google fast enough.

http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

So, yes, EE is better than physics, as claimed, although it's not that much better.

I thought we established much earlier, though, that the unemployment rate is not really the issue.

And I can see from those numbers that Physics is better than Computer Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Accounting and quite comparable to Computer Science. It is also better than Average. So are you going to drop your silly opinion now that you can't get a job with a BS Physics and that engineering is always better?

 

[homeomorphic]

That's not my opinion. Nothing to do with employment rate. We already established that much earlier. Rate of being able to use what you study.

 

[homeomorphic]

Okay, so maybe I was wrong about that for civil and mechanical, but EE and CS are still better. I maybe did overestimate by how much, but it's there. But even with that said, that isn't really the issue.

 

[micromass]

Okay, so maybe I was wrong about that for civil and mechanical, but EE and CS are still better. I maybe did overestimate by how much, but it's there. But even with that said, that isn't really the issue.

Sure, CS is better. By 0.5%, you don't feel you're being a bit dishonest now? It's not like the difference is 0% versus 10%! It's 4.1% vs 4.6%. And for EE, it's 3.5% versus 4.6% which is (in my opinion) not a landslide either.

So you feel a difference of 0.5% is enough to advice people not to take physics and to take Computer Science instead?

 

[homeomorphic]

So you feel a difference of 0.5% is enough to advice people not to take physics and to take Computer Science instead?

I think you may have missed the part about how that wasn't the issue.

 

[micromass]

And then we have job satisfaction: http://www.studentsreview.com/satisfaction_by_major.php3

Computer Science: 69.6%
EE: 75.9%
Math: 78.9%
Mech Eng: 82.6%
Physics: 72.5%

Sure, physics is among the worst here, but not by much (and certainly compared to some other majors which have 50% or something).

 

[homeomorphic]

Job satisfaction is not the issue, either.

 

[micromass]

I think you may have missed the part about how that wasn't the issue.

So Physics have a better job satisfaction rate than Computer science. Would this be part of the issue?

 

[homeomorphic]

I said what the issue was.

 

[micromass]

Job satisfaction is not the issue, either.

Then what is the issue?

 

[atyy]

So you feel a difference of 0.5% is enough to advice people not to take physics and to take Computer Science instead?

But how about the APS recommendations I listed in post #44? Could it be that many physics majors do double majors in engineering or computer science?

 

[homeomorphic]

So Physics have a better job satisfaction rate than Computer science. Would this be part of the issue?

No. Now, you're guilty of the same thing you were accusing me of. It's not much better.

 

[homeomorphic]

Again, the issue is how much you will be able to use what you study. I am happy with my job. That is almost irrelevant to whether my PhD was worth it.

 

[micromass]

OK, ability to stay in the field: http://www.studentsreview.com/still_in_field_by_major.php3 (I think job satisfaction is the biggest issue here though, and not anything else)

Computer Science 80.6%
EE: 75.5%
General Engineering: 69.2%
Math: 66.5%
Physics 66.7%
Mechanical Engineering: 77.5%

Sure, physics and math are way worse here, but it's not really a surprise that physicists and mathematicians have to leave their field. What matters is job satisfaction, not whether you could land a professorship or something else.

 

[micromass]

But how about the APS recommendations I listed in post #44? Could it be that many physics majors do double majors in engineering or computer science?

That could be. I think it is a very good and sound recommendation to do that.

 

[homeomorphic]

Ta da!

Exactly my point. Sorry.

No, job satisfaction is not what matters, per se. I spent years studying something I am not really going to use. I could have just gotten the job and skipped that part.

 

[micromass]

No. Now, you're guilty of the same thing you were accusing me of. It's not much better.

Correct, but if you get to argue this way, I can too.

 

[homeomorphic]

Although, you are right that that is less of a concern in this particular context (BS physics).

 

[homeomorphic]

Correct, but if you get to argue this way, I can too.

I admitted my error, but if you remember what I said at the very beginning, it's not like I'm moving the goal posts if I say that is a different issue.

 

[micromass]

Ta da!

Exactly my point. Sorry.

No, job satisfaction is not what matters, per se. I spent years studying something I am not really going to use. I could have just gotten the job and skipped that part.

So is it really a surprise you can't use algebraic topology in industry? Really?

What matters is:
1) That you enjoy your studies and get to learn something you want to learn
2) That you can find a good job afterwards
3) That you are satisfied with your job.

In my opinion (and the numbers do agree with this): if you enjoy physics, then a major in physics is a solid choice.

 

[Choppy]

Again, the issue is how much you will be able to use what you study. I am happy with my job. That is almost irrelevant to whether my PhD was worth it.

No.

The issue is advice for the original poster who is struggling in his physics program and wondering if he (or she) should switch majors based on the assumption that there are no jobs for physics majors. This is an incorrect assumption.

 

[homeomorphic]

So is it really a surprise you can't use algebraic topology in industry? Really?

I got a little cocky, and I thought I was going to be a prof. Maybe at a community college, if I had to, but unfortunately, it turned out that teaching isn't my thing. If it had been, maybe it would have worked out.

Micromass, your opinion is fine. But it is not the opinion of every potential physics student. Some of them might want to use what they learn.

 

[homeomorphic]

The issue is advice for the original poster who is struggling in his physics program and wondering if he (or she) should switch majors based on the assumption that there are no jobs for physics majors. This is an incorrect assumption.

And it's also an incorrect assumption that I said that there were no jobs for physics majors. We did get off topic, yes, if that's what you mean. But sometimes, people say things and I have to explain myself.

 

[micromass]

Micromass, your opinion is fine. But it is not the opinion of every potential physics student. Some of them might want to use what they learn.

Ok sure. But I don't think that is the point of this thread. If the thread was "I want to be a physics professor or researcher", then yeah, I would definitely have said that there are not many job openings for that. I have said these things in the past many time. The issue in this thread is whether there are jobs at all, and there are.

I mean, I understand that you wanted to be a math professor. But not everybody will have such unrealistic expectations.

 

[atyy]

Correct, but if you get to argue this way, I can too.

Reductio ad absurdum? Proving the worth of a maths degree right there!

 

[micromass]

Reductio ad absurdum? Proving the worth of a maths degree right there!

Assume by contradiction that I have a job. Hey, I have a job, my life is great!

 

[homeomorphic]

Ok sure. But I don't think that is the point of this thread. If the thread was "I want to be a physics professor or researcher", then yeah, I would definitely have said that there are not many job openings for that. I have said these things in the past many time. The issue in this thread is whether there are jobs at all, and there are.

To which I just said, be prepared for the job search. Maybe the stats are not that bad because people prepare.

You know what?

I probably should have just said that and not brought up other things. But that job search was awful, and it's still fresh in my memory. A lot of people do have a hard time with it.

But part of the point was to clarify the issue by saying it's more an issue of getting a job where you can use physics, rather than being able to get some kind of okay job. So, it's a side-issue to the point of the thread, but when you put me on the defensive, I have to talk about what the more general issues are to clarify what I'm saying.

I mean, I understand that you wanted to be a math professor. But not everybody will have such unrealistic expectations.

I don't think it was that unrealistic. I finished my PhD. If I liked teaching, it's possible I'd be doing it.

 

[micromass]

I don't think it was that unrealistic. I finished my PhD.

It's very unrealistic, even with a PhD. Do the math: how many PhD's does a math professor deliver in his life? Only one of those will be needed to replace his jobs.
And as for teaching community colleges, the situation is very bad there.

 

[homeomorphic]

It's very unrealistic, even with a PhD. Do the math: how many PhD's does a math professor deliver in his life? Only one of those will be needed to replace his jobs.

I agree. But I got in the ballpark of being able to do it, and if I had been more interested in doing things the way I was expected to, maybe I could have pulled it off.

And as for teaching community colleges, the situation is very bad there.

Okay, maybe a 4 year college or something, but in any case, it turns out I don't like teaching, anyway, so it's not important.