Showing that a set is an ideal

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The discussion focuses on demonstrating that the set of nilpotent elements in a commutative ring is an ideal. Key points include the necessity to show that the set is an additive subgroup and satisfies the absorption property for ideals, specifically that for any element in the ring and any nilpotent element, the product remains nilpotent. Participants clarify that while showing closure under multiplication of nilpotent elements may seem unnecessary, it reinforces the structure of the set. The consensus is that the essential criteria for an ideal include non-emptiness, closure under addition, and the absorption property. Understanding these requirements is crucial for proving that the set of nilpotent elements forms an ideal in the ring.
Mr Davis 97
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Homework Statement


Show that the collection of all nilpotent elements of a commutative ring ##R## is an ideal.

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The Attempt at a Solution


Showing that something is an ideal is somewhat straightforward, but I am a little confused as to what explicitly I have to show. If we denote ##N## as the set in question, then I know that we have to show that ##aN \subseteq N## and ##Nb \subseteq## for all ##a,b \in R##. But what else do I have to show? Do I have to show that N is an additive subgroup?
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:
Do I have to show that N is an additive subgroup
Yes
 
andrewkirk said:
Yes
Consider ##(a + b)^{m+n}##, where ##a,b \in N##. In the binomial expansion, each summand contains a term ##a^{i}b^{m+n−i}##. Now
either ##i \ge m## so that ##a^i## = 0 or ##m+ n − i \ge n## so that ##b^{m+n−i} = 0##. Thus each summand of ##(a + b)^{m+n}##
is zero, so ##(a + b)^{m+n} ##= 0 and ##N## is closed under addition. Also, since ##0^1 = 0##, ##0 \in N##.
Also ##(−a)^m## is either ##a^m## or ##−a^m##, so ##(−a)^m = 0## and ##-a \in N##.

Does this show that ##N## is a additive subgroup of ##R##?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
Consider ##(a + b)^{m+n}##, where ##a,b \in N##. In the binomial expansion, each summand contains a term ##a^{i}b^{m+n−i}##. Now
either ##i \ge m## so that ##a^i## = 0 or ##m+ n − i \ge n## so that ##b^{m+n−i} = 0##. Thus each summand of ##(a + b)^{m+n}##
is zero, so ##(a + b)^{m+n} ##= 0 and ##N## is closed under addition. Also, since ##0^1 = 0##, ##0 \in N##.
Also ##(−a)^m## is either ##a^m## or ##−a^m##, so ##(−a)^m = 0## and ##-a \in N##.

Does this show that ##N## is a additive subgroup of ##R##?
I think you need the power ##n+m+1##. But basically, yes. For an ideal you also need ##r \cdot a \in N##.
 
fresh_42 said:
I think you need the power ##n+m+1##. But basically, yes. For an ideal you also need ##r \cdot a \in N##.
In the solution to this problem in the book, it also shows that ##N## is closed under multiplication of elements in ##N##. It shows that ##(ab)^{mn} = (a^m)^n(b^n)^m = (0)(0) = 0##, so ##ab \in N##. Isn't this unnecessary? Don't I only need to show that ##N## is an additive subgroup and that is satisfies the absorption property for ideals? Where would being internally closed under multiplication fit in?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
In the solution to this problem in the book, it also shows that ##N## is closed under multiplication of elements in ##N##. It shows that ##(ab)^{mn} = (a^m)^n(b^n)^m = (0)(0) = 0##, so ##ab \in N##. Isn't this unnecessary? Don't I only need to show that ##N## is an additive subgroup and that is satisfies the absorption property for ideals? Where would being internally closed under multiplication fit in?
Well, it does no harm and is almost obvious in a commutative ring. It shows, that ##N## carries also a ring structure. But if ##r \cdot a \in N## for all ##r \in R\, , \,a \in N##, doesn't this imply ##a\cdot b \in N## for all ##a,b \in N##?
 
fresh_42 said:
Well, it does no harm and is almost obvious in a commutative ring. It shows, that ##N## carries also a ring structure. But if ##r \cdot a \in N## for all ##r \in R\, , \,a \in N##, doesn't this imply ##a\cdot b \in N## for all ##a,b \in N##?
That's what I mean. It seems superfluous. I just want to make sure I know what is strictly necessary to show that some set is an ideal of a ring.
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
That's what I mean. It seems superfluous. I just want to make sure I know what is strictly necessary to show that some set is an ideal of a ring.
Then (minimal) it's (for left ideals)
  1. ##N \neq \emptyset##
  2. ##a - b \in N## for all ##a,b \in N##
  3. ##r \cdot a \in N## for all ##r\in R \, , \,a \in N##
Of course left and right ideals don't have to be distinguished in a commutative ring, but in general they have to be. And the first condition cannot be omitted by the second (##a-a \in N)##, as in case ##N## is empty, the second condition is still true, whereas ##0 \notin N##, which is needed. So we can also write ##0 \in N## as first condition.
 
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