Showing that partial sums diverge to infinity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the limit of the sequence of partial sums of a divergent series with nonnegative terms approaches infinity. Participants are examining the definitions and implications of divergence in the context of series and their partial sums.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants explore the definition of divergence and its relationship to the behavior of the sequence of partial sums. Others question whether the properties of being increasing and unbounded are sufficient to demonstrate that the limit approaches infinity.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants raising questions about the definitions and implications of divergence. Some have offered insights into the relationship between convergence and divergence, while others are seeking clarification on specific aspects of the proof.

Contextual Notes

There is a focus on the definitions of convergence and divergence, particularly in relation to the sequence of partial sums. Participants are also considering the implications of these definitions for proving the limit behavior of the series.

Mr Davis 97
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Homework Statement


Let ##\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_n## be a series with nonnegative terms which diverges, and let ##(s_n)## be the sequence of partial sums. Prove that ##\lim_{n\to\infty} s_n = \infty##.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


This isn't a difficult problem, but I want to make sure my details are right.

Note that ##(s_n)## is an increasing sequence that is not convergent. By the monotone convergence theorem, we can conclude that ##(s_n)## is unbounded above. Since we have a sequence that is increasing and unbounded above and does not converge, we see that ##\lim_{n\to\infty}s_n=\infty## ☐

Here is my problem: is this enough to show that ##\lim_{n\to\infty}s_n=\infty##? In my textbook, the definition of an infinite limit is this: ##\forall M\in\mathbb{R}\exists N\in \mathbb{N}\forall n\ge N, s_n>M##. So is what I said, that the sequence is increasing, unbounded above and does not converge, sufficient to show that this definition is true?
 
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And here is my problem: What does that mean?
Mr Davis 97 said:
Let ##\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_n## be a series ... which diverges
 
fresh_42 said:
And here is my problem: What does that mean?
I believe this means that ##\forall n\in \mathbb{N}, a_n\ge 0##.
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
I believe this means that ##\forall n\in \mathbb{N}, a_n\ge 0##.
No, that's the meaning of "nonnegative". I substituted this part on purpose by ... in my quote. I mean, what is divergence of a series to you? To me, it is exactly the divergence of the sequence of partial sums. Now, if you make this - my definition - into a statement, which has to be proven, then you obviously used something else to define a divergent series. What is it?
 
fresh_42 said:
No, that's the meaning of "nonnegative". I substituted this part on purpose by ... in my quote. I mean, what is divergence of a series to you? To me, it is exactly the divergence of the sequence of partial sums. Now, if you make this - my definition - into a statement, which has to be proven, then you obviously used something else to define a divergent series. What is it?
An infinite series is convergent iff the partial sums are convergent. An an infinite series is divergent iff the partial sums are divergent.

We know that ##(s_n)## diverges. I guess the idea of the problem is to show that it specifically diverges to infinity.
 
So a divergent series means, that the sequence of partial sums does not converge.
Let me be correct: ##S_n## converges to ##L## means: ##\exists \, L\in \mathbb{R} \,\forall\,\varepsilon>0\,\exists \,N_\varepsilon \in \mathbb{N}\,\forall \,n>N_\varepsilon \,:\, |S_n-L|< \varepsilon##
Then divergences is: ##\forall \,L \in \mathbb{R}\,\exists\,C_L>0\,\forall\, n\in \mathbb{N}\,\exists \,N_n > n \,:\,|S_{N_n}-L|>C_L\quad (*)##

So for any potential limit ##L## there is a minimum distance ##C_L## where we find a sequence element outside, if we only go far enough with the index.
[I hope this is correct so far.]

Now how can we conclude from ##S_n \leq S_{n+1}## and the given ##(*)## that ##\forall M\in\mathbb{R}\exists N_M\in \mathbb{N}\forall n\ge N_M, s_n>M\,?##
[Do you agree so far? It's a bit late here for so many quantors, so I apologize for possible mistakes.]

I would start with: Let ##M\in \mathbb{R}## be arbitrary but fixed. Then take ##L:=M## and see whether the triangle inequality (possibly its left hand side) can be used.
 
fresh_42 said:
So a divergent series means, that the sequence of partial sums does not converge.
Let me be correct: ##S_n## converges to ##L## means: ##\exists \, L\in \mathbb{R} \,\forall\,\varepsilon>0\,\exists \,N_\varepsilon \in \mathbb{N}\,\forall \,n>N_\varepsilon \,:\, |S_n-L|< \varepsilon##
Then divergences is: ##\forall \,L \in \mathbb{R}\,\exists\,C_L>0\,\forall\, n\in \mathbb{N}\,\exists \,N_n > n \,:\,|S_{N_n}-L|>C_L\quad (*)##

So for any potential limit ##L## there is a minimum distance ##C_L## where we find a sequence element outside, if we only go far enough with the index.
[I hope this is correct so far.]

Now how can we conclude from ##S_n \leq S_{n+1}## and the given ##(*)## that ##\forall M\in\mathbb{R}\exists N_M\in \mathbb{N}\forall n\ge N_M, s_n>M\,?##
[Do you agree so far? It's a bit late here for so many quantors, so I apologize for possible mistakes.]

I would start with: Let ##M\in \mathbb{R}## be arbitrary but fixed. Then take ##L:=M## and see whether the triangle inequality (possibly its left hand side) can be used.
I'm getting lost in the quantifiers. So I assume that after letting ##M## be fixed, we want to produce an ##N_M##. Would could this ##N_M## be? Is it at all related to the ##N_n## from the definition of divergence?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
I'm getting lost in the quantifiers.
Me, too.
So I assume that after letting ##M## be fixed, we want to produce an ##N_M##. Would could this ##N_M## be? Is it at all related to the ##N_n## from the definition of divergence?
I only simply reversed all the quantifiers of convergence to obtain divergence, because you defined it as not convergent. So this definition brings them all in, and I'm not sure if I got all "<" correct. The goal is to distinguish between series which diverge due to alternation or other chaotic behavior and those which tend to infinity. This means, given any ##M## we must find an ##N_M## such that ##S_n > M## for all ##n > N_M##.

Perhaps we can go without the non-convergence here. Assume ##S_{n+1}\geq S_n## for all ##n##, then either it becomes stationary, in which case the series converges, or it grows beyond all limits. So divergence is only used to exclude the first case and we won't have to use any quantifiers.
 
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