Significance of derivative for functions of several variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of derivatives for functions of several variables, exploring the concept of differentiability and the interpretation of derivatives in higher dimensions. Participants examine the relationship between derivatives, tangent planes, and gradients, as well as the implications of these concepts in mathematical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of derivatives for functions of multiple variables, referencing a specific mathematical definition from a textbook.
  • Another participant explains that the derivative can be viewed as the slope of a tangent to a surface in a specific direction.
  • Some participants clarify that for functions of several variables, derivatives are not single numbers but rather involve partial derivatives, which represent rates of change in specific directions.
  • The concept of the gradient is introduced as a vector that indicates the direction of the steepest ascent, with its length representing the rate of increase.
  • Participants discuss the equation of the tangent plane and its relation to the derivative, with one participant expressing satisfaction with the explanation involving a physical analogy of walking along a hillside.
  • A participant inquires whether the coefficient of z in the tangent plane equation can be assumed to be non-zero, particularly in the context of deriving the equation.
  • Another participant responds affirmatively, explaining that for surfaces defined as z = f(x, y), the coefficient of z is indeed non-zero, and provides a general form for surfaces that supports this assertion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of derivatives in the context of multiple variables, but there is ongoing discussion regarding specific assumptions and definitions, particularly about the coefficient of z in the tangent plane equation. No consensus is reached on all aspects of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted regarding the assumptions made about the coefficient of z and the general forms of surfaces, which may affect the applicability of certain statements. The discussion remains open to further exploration of these concepts.

AAQIB IQBAL
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For single variable functions derivative means slope of tangent what does it mean for functions of more than one variable.
book says that a function is said to be differentiable if:
f(x + Δx , y + Δy) - f(x , y) = AΔx + BΔy + ε'ψ(Δx , Δy) + εh(Δx , Δy)
WHERE ε, ε' → 0 AS Δx , Δy → 0.
PLEASE PROVIDE SOME ASSISTANCE ON IT. :confused: :cry: :confused:

THANX IN ADVANCE
 
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The derivative is the slope of the tangent to a "surface" in a particular direction. In the so f'(x=a) is usually the slope of the tangent to f at x=a in the x direction.
 
AAQIB IQBAL is talking about "the derivative" as if it were a single number and, for functions of several variables, that is not true.

Simon Bridge is talking about the partial derivatives- imagine walking along a hillside (representing the surface z= f(x,y)) moving due east (the positive x-axis). The rate at which you go up or down is the partial derivative with respect to x. Moving northward (the positive y-axis) the rate at which you go up or down is the partial derivative with respect to y.

The closest thing to "THE" derivative is the gradient, \nabla f, which is a vector pointing in the direction of fastest increase whose length is the rate of increase in that direction. Just as the "tangent line", having slope f'(x_0), to a curve in the plane gives the "best" linear approximation to y= f(x) close to x= x_0, the "tangent plane, z= f_x(x_0,y_0)(x- x_0)+ f_y(x_0,y_0)(y- y_0)+ z_0 gives the best linear approximation to z= f(x,y) close to (x_0, y_0). In terms of the gradient, that can be written z= \nabla f(x_0,y_0)\cdot <x- x_0, y- y_0>+ z_0 where that multiplication is the dot product of vectors.

The formula your book gives is actually the equation of that tangent plane where the left side is "z- z_0", \Delta x= x- x_0, \Delta y= y- y_0 and the last two terms are the "error" terms- the distance from the tangent plane to the actual surface.
 
HallsofIvy said:
AAQIB IQBAL is talking about "the derivative" as if it were a single number and, for functions of several variables, that is not true.

Simon Bridge is talking about the partial derivatives- imagine walking along a hillside (representing the surface z= f(x,y)) moving due east (the positive x-axis). The rate at which you go up or down is the partial derivative with respect to x. Moving northward (the positive y-axis) the rate at which you go up or down is the partial derivative with respect to y.

The closest thing to "THE" derivative is the gradient, \nabla f, which is a vector pointing in the direction of fastest increase whose length is the rate of increase in that direction. Just as the "tangent line", having slope f'(x_0), to a curve in the plane gives the "best" linear approximation to y= f(x) close to x= x_0, the "tangent plane, z= f_x(x_0,y_0)(x- x_0)+ f_y(x_0,y_0)(y- y_0)+ z_0 gives the best linear approximation to z= f(x,y) close to (x_0, y_0). In terms of the gradient, that can be written z= \nabla f(x_0,y_0)\cdot <x- x_0, y- y_0>+ z_0 where that multiplication is the dot product of vectors.

The formula your book gives is actually the equation of that tangent plane where the left side is "z- z_0", \Delta x= x- x_0, \Delta y= y- y_0 and the last two terms are the "error" terms- the distance from the tangent plane to the actual surface.
thank you, you have provided most satisfactory answer to my problem (especially "... imagine walking along ...").
Now i need to know one thing that can we assume the coefficient of z in the equation of tangent plane is non zero without loss of generality.
Actually while deriving the equation i need to divide throughout by coefficient of z, that is why i am asking this question.
 
AAQIB IQBAL said:
thank you, you have provided most satisfactory answer to my problem (especially "... imagine walking along ...").
Now i need to know one thing that can we assume the coefficient of z in the equation of tangent plane is non zero without loss of generality.
Actually while deriving the equation i need to divide throughout by coefficient of z, that is why i am asking this question.
IF you are given the surface as "z= f(x,y)" that is necessarily true. The most general form for a surface is "F(x,y,z)= constant", as, for example, the surface of a sphere, given by x^2+ y^2+ z^2= r^2. In that case, the gradient of F, \nabla F, is normal to the surface at any point and the tangent plane to F(x,y,z)= C at (x_0, y_0, z_0) is \nabla\cdot<x- x_0, y- y_0, z- z_0>= 0. In the case that z= f(x, y), we can write F(x, y, z)= f(x,y)- z= 0 so that \nabla F= <f_x, f_y, -1> and the tangent plane is given by f_x(x- x_0)+ f_y(z- z_0)- (z- f(x_0, y_0))= 0. So the coefficient of z, in the case that z= f(x,y), is non-zero.
 

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