Simple Harmonic motion : Is energy conserved

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of energy in the context of Simple Harmonic Motion (SHM). The original poster questions whether energy is conserved while a particle oscillates between two plates under the influence of gravity, with specific parameters provided for amplitude and frequency.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster presents two methods for calculating maximum speed, expressing doubt about energy conservation in SHM.
  • Participants question the assumptions regarding the system's setup, particularly the role of potential energy and whether a spring mechanism is involved.
  • Some participants suggest that the gravitational energy alone may not suffice for SHM and highlight the need for elastic potential energy in the system.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring different interpretations of the problem, particularly regarding the nature of the forces involved and the conditions necessary for SHM. There is no explicit consensus, but several points of guidance have been offered regarding the need for a spring or similar mechanism to account for energy conservation.

Contextual Notes

There is ambiguity regarding the physical setup, including whether a spring is present and how the particle interacts with the plates. The original poster's reference to a sewing machine needle adds complexity to the discussion of energy conservation in this context.

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Homework Statement



I doubt energy is conserved in SHM, or it might be possible that i be doing something wrong.
The particle (red dot) in the attachment is at its equilibrium position and oscillates with Simple Harmonic Motion between the two yellow colored plates.

Amplitude A = 1.5 m
Frequency = 3 Hz
Find the maximum speed of the particle

Homework Equations



Conservation of Energy
V = ω \sqrt{A^{2}-x^{2}}

The Attempt at a Solution



This max speed occurs at its equilibrium position .

1st method (which leads to the correct answer) :
V = 9∏ meters per second

2nd method (explain why this is wrong when it makes perfect sense)
Total energy at highest plate (yellow) = total energy at equilibrium position
mg(1.5) = 0.5mv^{2}
v = \sqrt{30}

What is wrong with energy conservation method ?
 

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Without seeing the picture it is hard to say where you went wrong.

However, I should say that the second method seems inconsistent with either of the two typical SHM models. If the model is a pendulum, then the max height is not the amplitude. If the model is a spring with a mass, then I do not see any account of its stiffness.
 
Yeah, what voko said. If this is a thing oscillating up and down on a spring, you're not accounting for the elastic potential energy due to that. If only gravity is acting, then the thing cannot be undergoing SHM.
 
I thought i had uploaded it, sorry for that. Anyways, it is under gravity and it is going SHM. (why wouldn't it)
 
Is there a spring?

Or is it reflected upon colliding with either plate? Then there can't be any equilibrium between the plates.
 
voko said:
Is there a spring?

Or is it reflected upon colliding with either plate? Then there can't be any equilibrium between the plates.

It is a needle which is being moved by an automated sewing machine

I really can't see why do you need that information to answer the question :
Why isn't Energy conserved in this problem ?
In ANY case, the total energy at each and every point (displacement) during the SHM must be the same
 
Because the gravitational energy is not the only kind of potential energy in this problem (for that matter, it is not even obvious that there is potential energy here). As cepheid said, gravity alone won't be enough for SHM in this case.
 
You quite correctly get max v = ωA = 9π
If you put this in the 0.5mv^2 expression you will get an expression for the max KE
The max PE is given by 0.5F x A (average force x max displacement)
If you substitute the expression for max force in SHM you should see that the max KE = Max PE

ps...I don't think has anything to do with gravitational PE, as the others have said this cannot be SHM if it simply bouncing between 2 plates, there must be a spring of some sort
 

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